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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
521–530 of 699 posts
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#522I'm not sure why the title of the article focuses on mining. China had already banned mining. This was very visible as a drop in the hash rate over the summer[1]. What has been announced now (by the Chinese central bank and a bunch of regulators) is that all crypto related transactions will be banned. [1] http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
(Comment mentions title mentioning mining because it was posted to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28642415 before we merged the threads.)
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#523The odd thing about their repeated attempts to damage crypto is that it feels like a strategic miss to me. If I was the CCP I'd try to leverage BTC (and others) as a weapon against the dominance of USD. Instead it looks like they just want to implement their own variant that gives them total control and transparency of in-country transactions. At a minimum they could do both (ban BTC use internally, but still allow m…
It hard to leverage it as a hedge against USD when it can be used against you, so many miners are already in China, and no real international transactions are happening in it (oil still USD).
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#524And the anti-cryptocurrency sentiment I've seen all over HN --- which appeared suddenly a few months ago --- is totally organic, right? I'm sick and tired of everything being a narrative manipulation op.
Of course it's organic. The community is divided on the topic same way it is on every divisive topic. Both sides overgeneralize and think the community is against them—people on sides always do that.
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#525Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#526One good thing to always keep in mind is that China structurally maintains the status quo of a Leninist state --- IMO, the entire reason they banned crypto is that crypto's goal --- relative anonymity, privacy, and freedom of where to move one's money --- goes directly _against_ China's closed, tightly regulated financial system. The bureaucrats at their Ministry of Finance must be absolutely appalled by the idea tha…
I suspect what is triggering this crackdown is that the enforcement of capital controls is becoming more critical as more people are nervous of a financial crisis in China because of bad debt / bad banks. Need to make sure those depositors have no place to go.
Though to be honest I don't understand how bitcoin can be used for getting money out of the country. Who would be willing to accept onshore CNY in payment for bitcoin in volumes if everyone is trying to move out?
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…
> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. I'm not following. By definition, inflation is what happens when the price of a currency is not stable. > Remember: Currency is not an investment. A good currency has a stable value over time; otherwise it's very difficult to conduct commerce Agreed. But in countries with high inflation, such as mine, you will lose money if all…
I will concede that switching out of a high-inflation currency to a stable one is a good idea, and that for many people using cryptocurrency is the only way of circumventing their country's laws on the subject.
However, bitcoin experiences 10-20% drops against the USD on a regular basis. It looks like this announcement has triggered another one. It's not stable, it's just (a) appreciated over time a lot and (b) is doing better against the USD than, say, the Argentine peso.
> By definition, inflation is what happens when the price of a currency is not stable
Inflation is what happens when the price of goods and services in a currency is not stable. It can be triggered without a change in the money supply by underlying shocks to the real economy (e.g. 70s oil shocks)
Bitcoin claims to guarantee money supply stability, but it cannot guarantee price stability.
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you propose as a solution for central banks and monetary policy attempting to operate in structural stagnation [1]? Do you believe digital tulips will maintain their value as real productivity declines due to demographics? Physical cash can be inflated with relatively the same ease as a CBDC through QE. You're seeking a level of control and authority of monetary policy only accessible to nation states. We agr…
My desired solution is for central banks and their abusive monetary policy to die in a fire. One way to achieve that is to have many competing currencies that are not controlled by a central bank. If any are a worthy replacement for government fiat people will use it. But, that is precisely why governments will do their best to regulate use of competing currencies. China has the most restrictive capital controls in t…
This implies a probably lack of understanding of what Central Banks do.
"When the ships come into harbour, nail them to the dock" - not realizing that eventually, when the tide goes out - the ship will go down several feet relative to the dock and be damaged by the fixed boarding blanks.
You have to use ropes to fix ships, because the water moves.
Dumping the Central Bank and even using hard currency would lead to economic collapse the very first time there is an existential shock - and the only 'saviour' would be a different form of monetary intervention i.e. fiscal policy (i.e. government budget).
Also, in a completely unregulated scenario, powerful financial interests would leverage ownership of the crypto scheme and power would even be further centralized.
Bitcoin is disproportionately owned by a small number of players who have absolutely zero civic perspective, they're looking to make a Trillion dollars out of nothing.
If you don't like that money is managed by a large swath of banks working together with government and regulatory oversight and frankly relative transparency ... then you really won't like it when your monetary system is managed by the insane tyrant offspring of the Winkelvi and Satoshi dynasties who own 30% of the economy.
Crypto mining that is energy intensive should be banned immediately on that basis alone.
Aside from that, anyone declaring monetary value on a crypto asset should have to declare it, and if they don't, they go to actual prison for tax evasion. I'm looking forward to those people replacing weed smokers in prison - that would be effective public policy.
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#529One good thing to always keep in mind is that China structurally maintains the status quo of a Leninist state --- IMO, the entire reason they banned crypto is that crypto's goal --- relative anonymity, privacy, and freedom of where to move one's money --- goes directly _against_ China's closed, tightly regulated financial system. The bureaucrats at their Ministry of Finance must be absolutely appalled by the idea tha…
I suspect what is triggering this crackdown is that the enforcement of capital controls is becoming more critical as more people are nervous of a financial crisis in China because of bad debt / bad banks. Need to make sure those depositors have no place to go. Though to be honest I don't understand how bitcoin can be used for getting money out of the country. Who would be willing to accept onshore CNY in payment for…
Someone who needs CNY, that can then buy real goods and export them.
Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe you lack understanding of BTC monetary policy. I'm 100% sure you don't think you do though. BTC is at the point where if you don't have time or want to research what it really is, and only want to believe talking heads and authority figures, no one is going to take the time to explain it to you. Those days are over, people have moved on and are using it for utility, without permission, how they see fit, whe…
> I believe you lack understanding of BTC monetary policy. I am so tired of people insisting that I simply don't know anything. The mining curve is monetary policy. For example, a 100% premined coin has very different properties than a coin with a fixed mining rate and no upper bound. The upper bound on the number of bitcoins is consistently pointed at by proponents as a means to prevent inflation. I can imagine no o…
You claim you're tired of insisting you don't know anythig, yet you beleive you have no democratic say in BTC monetary policy. You don't know what you don't know.