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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#251

Post by blacksqr »

pid-1 wrote: post #179
gwbas1c wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…

> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. I'm not following. By definition, inflation is what happens when the price of a currency is not stable. > Remember: Currency is not an investment. A good currency has a stable value over time; otherwise it's very difficult to conduct commerce Agreed. But in countries with high inflation, such as mine, you will lose money if all…

There is a huge difference between moderate inflation and ruinous hyperinflation. For example, before last year Australia had gone almost 30 years without a recession [0], in large part because their central bank's inflation target is a few points higher than the US's hard 2% ceiling. This gives their bank more flexibility in controlling the money supply.

That kind of stability is more beneficial to the middle class than any negatives that may come with that level of inflation.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/business/australia-recess...

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#252

Post by otterley »

MillenialMan wrote: post #248
dmytrish wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto"currencies" are not the only way to store value when an official currency is failing: people who want their savings preserved can get USD, EUR, gold. Crypto *is* volatile and wasteful compared to any of those.

All of those things can be tracked and confiscated - crypto is a lot harder. It's volatile, but it's significantly more secure against state actors.

Yes, and they should be, in order to deter and punish crime.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#253

Post by MillenialMan »

tgtweak wrote: post #47

For those of you keeping track, this is about the 20th time China has declared to have banned Bitcoin or crypto. The only thing they've done is demonstrated that crypto is a threat to their all-reaching power grab and that they are mostly powerless to control it.

I would think the main thing they're afraid of is that it allows Chinese citizens to operate outside the state apparatus of surveillance.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#254

Post by the_third_wave »

epgui wrote: post #23
flenserboy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you'd rather a system where TPTB get to fudge the books as they see fit, impose taxes via intentional inflation, and keep tabs on your every transaction? Interesting.

That’s not exactly how it works.

Not exactly, that is true - it is rather hard to describe international trade in 140 characters-or-less. It can not be denied that there is a lot of truth to the statement though even if it does not describe all factors of influence:

> a system where TPTB get to fudge the books as they see fit

This depends on whether the media are in to the party or not but when they are this is mostly true.

> impose taxes via intentional inflation

This is a fact in those countries which have control over their own currency.

> and keep tabs on your every transaction

This is a fact and one of the driving forces behind the "cashless society".

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#255

Post by cortic »

jhgb wrote: post #140
cortic wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are against investment in renewables. That is not as progressive as you think.

Clearly he thinks that investments in renewables are a good thing, since those would also "reduce the use of non-renewables in the wider energy grid". So I'm puzzled why you'd think what you just wrote.

"Every watt of renewable power generated to power a crypto miner," IS investment in renewable energy.. which he would rather was not invested in renewable energy. I don't see any other way to interpret that, unless you think that paying monies for renewables is somehow not 'investing' in renewables.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#256

Post by noxer »

pyrale wrote: post #144
noxer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only PoW cryptos need extensive electricity and hardware. Its completely absurd to ban crypto. Thats like if you would ban all motorized vehicles to get rid of coal blasting diesel trucks without catalytic converter. Needless to say that its also technically impossible to ban crypto. Its like banning torrents or even harder and we all know torrent was attacked heavily in the past but it did not go away.

> Needless to say that its also technically impossible to ban crypto. No one wants to ban crypto. The goal is to ban financial institutions that handle fiat from trading with institutions that handle crypto. From there, if people want to accept funny money as payment for pizzas, it's up to them really.

You misses the point. There is no reason to ban anything. You can also buy Pokemon cards and sell or trade them. Call them funny money cards if you want, but there is no legitimate reason why people should not be able to buy/sell them. Also plenty places have already put cryptos in the laws declared them as alternative currency so they cant really prevent financial institution form handling it. If they really would globally cut crypto form fiat. You wouldn't need to pay taxes with anything you do with crypt anymore since its just "funny money" this would boost crypto and devalue fiat and cause all kind of horrible side effects. You have in incentive to get paid in funny money if you dont have to tax it.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#257

Post by Auracle »

marcosdumay wrote: post #205
pskiba wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if he meant less than 5% of miners make money. I could potentially believe this, given the competitive nature of mining. However, as an investment, as of right now, there is only a span of a few months where if you bought Bitcoin you would not be in the green right now.

Every bubble does that all the time until it bursts. Did people find a useful reason to buy Bitcoin already? Something that creates value, instead of hopping to sell higher for the next sucker?

My stocks are worthless to me, other than hoping to sell high for the next sucker.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#258

Post by singularity2001 »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #217
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

>Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course. Like what, NFTs for farts? Near as I can tell, the other main use cases for crypto - smart contracts, supply chain provenance tracking, and securities settlement processing really haven't panned out. Others have pointed out why it's not working as a currency. Literally all we have left is a vehicle for speculation.

maybe PoS powered micro payment in the browser instead of ads... one day in utopia

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#260

Post by baybal2 »

83 wrote: post #146
baybal2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not to ban steelmaking first? Steel manufacturing requires tons of electricity, and it is already impossible in EU without enormous subsidies. It's an industry surviving entirely on life support.

Governments want a healthy steelmaking industry so when the time comes to defend your country you can make guns and tanks. When your country is being invaded how useful is your bitcoin going to be?

> When your country is being invaded how useful is your bitcoin going to be?

You can bribe enemy army staff with it.

But seriously, just how much is too much when it comes to steel subsidies, and just how much EU can tolerate its steel industry failing so hard to upgrade?

Rather than subsidising, say, buying new, more efficient blast furnaces EU countries basically just spend few hundred dollars extra of taxpayer money per ton of steel.

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