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China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

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Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#211

Post by dmytrish »

Pmop wrote: post #180
holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

You probably live in the first world and had never to worry about inflation or politicians/bureaucrats just straight destroying the fiat currency and your wealth in the process. That's why crypto sounds so "wasteful" to you. BTW, if we give the government the power to judge what is a waste of energy and what's not, I can assure you life would be 100% more miserable, to everyone.

Crypto"currencies" are not the only way to store value when an official currency is failing: people who want their savings preserved can get USD, EUR, gold.

Crypto *is* volatile and wasteful compared to any of those.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#212

Post by krageon »

Loughla wrote: post #76
dougmwne wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a country rounding up a whole population of a religious minority and sending them to reeducation camps. A country that mobilized over a billion people to almost completely control covid. You are vastly underestimating the CCP, as most Westerns continue to do.

I've noticed this quite a bit, and I don't understand it. People keep writing articles and saying things amounting to 'it just won't last forever'. But the reason is, because it just won't, totalitarian governments don't last. Why wouldn't it? Strong central government. Clear economic and social goals with the ends justifying whatever unethical means. A complacent middle and upper class satiated by enough new wealth…

> Or is this just wishful thinking from the west?

It's state propaganda. A (clever and very well designed) mix of known government actors and easily influenced third parties that work to push a specific narrative online. The thundering irony is that the west reports on such practices extensively when it comes to China, but the far more obvious actor (visible in the west) is your own government.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#213

Post by RobertoG »

pid-1 wrote: post #179
gwbas1c wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…

> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. I'm not following. By definition, inflation is what happens when the price of a currency is not stable. > Remember: Currency is not an investment. A good currency has a stable value over time; otherwise it's very difficult to conduct commerce Agreed. But in countries with high inflation, such as mine, you will lose money if all…

You should look more into the real causes of inflation in your country, because they are probably not what you think

Even without knowing what country you are from, I would bet that inflation is because imports and exports imbalances and nothing to do with "printing too much money".

And anyway, if the problem is storing value, why you don't buy gold or dollars, yens or something like that?

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#214

Post by gilrain »

pskiba wrote: post #115
Graffur wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is the top comment on this thread and it's a bit surprising. When you say less than 5%, what are you talk about? Can you point to any sources that back that up?

Maybe if he meant less than 5% of miners make money. I could potentially believe this, given the competitive nature of mining. However, as an investment, as of right now, there is only a span of a few months where if you bought Bitcoin you would not be in the green right now.

You’re only in the green if you sell.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#215

Post by belltaco »

pskiba wrote: post #198
gwbas1c wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…

> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable A stable currency would have an inflation rate of 0%. Inflation does not cause currency stability, it decreases the value of the currency. By definition, its value is changing.

Not true, if money supply does not grow with population or economic growth it will be deflationary aka not stable. If deflation continues then people will hold onto money rather than buy things with it since things become relatively cheaper every day, which leads to economic downturn.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#216

Post by zionic »

pskiba wrote: post #198
gwbas1c wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable. IE, if people want to use dollars, the US government can print more dollars to satisfy the demand. (And thus keep the value stable.) Cryptocurrency's volatile value is a result of its inabi…

> The reason why we have inflation and debt is to keep the value of our currencies stable A stable currency would have an inflation rate of 0%. Inflation does not cause currency stability, it decreases the value of the currency. By definition, its value is changing.

Exactly! Sad to see this kind of financial illiteracy on HN in the GP

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#217

Post by DebtDeflation »

holoduke wrote: post #14

I hope the rest of world follows. There is nothing more volatile than a decentralised crypto currency. The amount of people making a profit from it is less than 5% and energy consumption is beyond acceptable. Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

>Crypto as a tech to serve something different is totally fine of course.

Like what, NFTs for farts? Near as I can tell, the other main use cases for crypto - smart contracts, supply chain provenance tracking, and securities settlement processing really haven't panned out. Others have pointed out why it's not working as a currency. Literally all we have left is a vehicle for speculation.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#218

Post by GDC7 »

enkid wrote: post #136
pid-1 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't downplay the environmental consequences of PoW, but the actual reason so many governments are speeding the push against crypto might be related to a future of high inflation and high gov debt. It would be the perfect storm for mainstream crypto adoption.

For China specifically, the reason to hate crypto currency is because it's a system where they don't have control. It's the same reason they are cracking down on the tech sector and Hong Kong. The CCP does not like having competitors for power or even something they don't have control over.

> The CCP does not like having competitors for power or even something they don't have control over.

The CCP is a bunch of unambitious individuals. Everything that causes troubles to the CCP means troubles for Xi and the possibility that his "president for life" title might be revoked, creating room for somebody else to ascend.

From a game theory standpoint it is better to be at the helm of a slightly less relevant organization than being a subordinate of an organization plowing ahead at full steam unrivaled.

This is even more true in politics and NGOs where the monetary compensation is very limited and it's all about the status.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#219

Post by true_religion »

simmerup wrote: post #174
selfhoster11 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That newly freedom-thirsty middle class could be simply brutally suppressed by an automated police force, powered by AI-driven surveillance. The CCP is a long-term thinking government, I'm sure they are at least considering how it would work.

The problem comes from the fact that educated, wealthy middle classes are not fungible I'm the same way peasants are. You can crush a thousand peasant farmers and replace them easily, you can't do that with the middle class without heavily setting back your economy and therefore being less competitive on the world stage. The CCP will need to decide whether they want to release control and let their population produce…

Considering the cultural revolution in China, the Siberian extermination camps of Soviet Russia, and the utterly bizarre treatment Imperial Britain had for petty criminals at the turn of the century, and the US Southern states fighting and dying for the right to enslave… I think that authoritarian governments would rather see tens if not hundreds of millions die before they ever lose their grip on power.

When things go poorly there is always an internal scapegoat, and knowing that no matter how low your situation is it’s (a) not your fault and (b) there is someone who has it worse is a great way to keep social cohesion through troublesome times. And if all else fails, one can find an external party and invade them as both a distraction and a way to deliver spoils to your loyalists.

I’d bet that things will get worse for ethnic and religious minorities in China during a downturn in the economy and if the economy continues to slowly slide for a decade then the neighbors of China like the Philippines will see more of their territory taken away.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#220

Post by ceilingcorner »

BobbyJo wrote: post #153
ceilingcorner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has a well known hatred for anything crypto. I’m not really sure why, to be honest. Very odd that an authoritarian action by an extremely centralized government is being applauded on here.

Even bad people can do good things. It's not strange at all that we can applaud an action of an authoritarian regime. Xi is an evil dictator, but I think this particular action is positive for the world.

So authoritarian action is okay if it’s against bad things?

We are in for a scary future, enabled by the attitudes in this thread.

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