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NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

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Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#51

Post by jimbokun »

benhoyt wrote: post #44
torstesu wrote: post #8

I have always been curious as to how religion will tackle proof of alien life. Do aliens get to go to heaven?

A statement from within orthodox Christianity about this ( http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/248/are_god_and_al... ): God became man in Jesus in order to save us. So if there are also other intelligent beings, it’s not a given that they need redemption. They might have remained in full friendship with their creator. The article also includes an interesting quote from C. S. Lewis on the subject: I look forward…

Lewis also wrote a SciFi trilogy to explore these ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Trilogy

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#52

Post by jimbokun »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #50
rufibarbatus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be relevant precisely because not every living thing on earth is believed to go to heaven. "But these guys don't get to go to heaven" is part of the rationale behind a lot of modern genocides, and before that many cases of slaughter and slavery. If we or the aliens are to think that of each other, hey, that's enough premise for a real-life Hollywood classic.

Right. Even if these hypothetical aliens have souls, what happens when we discover that there was no Christ crucified on their world? From that, we'll have to conclude that either 1) They can't be absolved of their sins, since Jesus didn't die for them . 2) The Earthly Jesus died for all sentient beings across the universe, but the fact that he did so on Earth demonstrates that Earthlings have a special place in God'…

As already referenced elsewhere in this thread, C.S. Lewis hypothesized

3) Extraterrestrials did not necessarily experience The Fall, and therefor have no need of a savior.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#53

Post by CWuestefeld »

jimbokun wrote: post #52
CWuestefeld wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Even if these hypothetical aliens have souls, what happens when we discover that there was no Christ crucified on their world? From that, we'll have to conclude that either 1) They can't be absolved of their sins, since Jesus didn't die for them . 2) The Earthly Jesus died for all sentient beings across the universe, but the fact that he did so on Earth demonstrates that Earthlings have a special place in God'…

As already referenced elsewhere in this thread, C.S. Lewis hypothesized 3) Extraterrestrials did not necessarily experience The Fall, and therefor have no need of a savior.

Extraterrestrials did not necessarily experience The Fall

I'm not aware of Lewis's argument, but I did think about this. It seems to me that we'd be able to determine this by simple inspection.

I assume that when we met these aliens, we'll be able to observe that they are sinful creatures: they will lie, steal, murder, etc., just like we do. This being the case, they'll need some mechanism for unloading those sins, won't they?

But: (1) maybe they won't be sinful; or (2) maybe there's some theological point that makes "The Fall" as such pivotal, so that other sins can be freely absolved, so long as one (or one's ancestors) haven't eaten from the tree of knowledge?

EDIT: As already referenced elsewhere in this thread, C.S. Lewis hypothesized -- a search through the thread for "Lewis" shows our interchange, and one other mention that doesn't reference aliens directly, but only the evil that humans could bring to them. And searching for "Fall" shows it nowhere else as a single word. So I think you're unfair in suggesting that my post was redundant.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#54

Post by kbutler »

torstesu wrote: post #14
Jach wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion doesn't need a literal interpretation to succeed, they'd just sweep it under the rug like everything else. Indeed, I think the majority of religious people do not believe much literally, and at least many of them are simply believers in belief.

I totally agree. Still, a discovery so profound as first contact must have some impact to their belief. But then again, my guess is that when this discovery is made, the larger part of the world are secularists.

>a discovery so profound as first contact must have some impact to their belief. But then again, my guess is that when this discovery is made, the larger part of the world are secularists.

Explored in the film "Contact" and the Carl Sagan book upon which it was based. Though apparently the ending differs significantly between the two. (I enjoyed the movie, but haven't gotten around to reading the book).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#55

Post by rufibarbatus »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #50
rufibarbatus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be relevant precisely because not every living thing on earth is believed to go to heaven. "But these guys don't get to go to heaven" is part of the rationale behind a lot of modern genocides, and before that many cases of slaughter and slavery. If we or the aliens are to think that of each other, hey, that's enough premise for a real-life Hollywood classic.

Right. Even if these hypothetical aliens have souls, what happens when we discover that there was no Christ crucified on their world? From that, we'll have to conclude that either 1) They can't be absolved of their sins, since Jesus didn't die for them . 2) The Earthly Jesus died for all sentient beings across the universe, but the fact that he did so on Earth demonstrates that Earthlings have a special place in God'…

Well, now you're reducing it to just Christianity. And within the context of Christianity, I don't see why people would jump to the conclusions that they have souls only to get stuck at the problem of "so what do we do with Jesus?"

I suppose people sooner call the aliens soulless demons or rethink their whole religion than go half way in one direction and then stop in the middle.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#56

Post by jeffool »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #10

My biggest fear is dying before mankind finds the definite scientific answer to death and our origin/s. We seem to be so near (~ one century away).

I think my biggest lament will be dying before we get off this rock and/or contact other intelligent life. But I think we're very far off from that.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#57

Post by ChuckMcM »

hugh3 wrote: post #42

Before anyone gets too excited: Amino acids on a comet, 2009: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17628-found-first-amin... Amino acids in interstellar space, 2002: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2558-amino-acid-found-... and a few more examples exist if you google "amino acids in space". We've known about amino acids in space for a long time. Amino acids exist all over the damn place.

Not left over smudges from the former inhabitants of planet Krypton? Ah shucks :-).

The interesting point here was the nuceobases (vs the amino acids). Mars water should be interesting to look at.

And of course a sample return mission to Ceres would be interesting as long as we didn't open the capsule in an uncontrolled environment :-).

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#58

Post by rokhayakebe »

ams6110 wrote: post #38
rokhayakebe wrote: post #10

My biggest fear is dying before mankind finds the definite scientific answer to death and our origin/s. We seem to be so near (~ one century away).

This is really your biggest fear? Or is that just a figure of speech. I'm genuinely curious, as while I think this "answer" might be intellectually satisfying to some degree, I see it as making little difference in practical matters. I also think it's an answer that will never come. I don't see any inconsistency between a universe created by God and any scientific observations we make within that creation.

I see it as making little difference in practical matters

It changes everything. It is like being 30 years old and finding you were adopted. You want to know where you come from.

Edit: But besides what you and I think, what will it mean to the world if religion was "proven" to be man-made, as well as the idea of a Higher Power.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#59

Post by omarchowdhury »

powertower wrote: post #48

Amino acids have also been made by slamming meteorite like material into earth like material at impact speeds (impact chemistry creates them due to the greate pressures and energy involved).

Meteorite/comets hitting the sphere of the Earth. The sperm reaching the egg cell. The answer to the beginning is at the beginning.

Re: NASA finds DNA components in meteorites, says they originated in space

#60

Post by patrickyeon »

po wrote: post #24

So one thing to keep in mind here is that according to NASA, the meteorite itself is generating these compounds: Thirdly, the team found these nucleobases -- both the biological and non-biological ones -- were produced in a completely non-biological reaction. "In the lab, an identical suite of nucleobases and nucleobase analogs were generated in non-biological chemical reactions containing hydrogen cyanide, ammonia,…

Absolutely. Also, for those not necessarily familiar with the composition of outer space: hydrogen cyanide, ammonia, and water are all relatively common "out there", as in "in the spaces between planets and stars and everything else.
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