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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#201

Post by contingencies »

mikro2nd wrote: post #182
lmilcin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can't understand how people put up with not being able to control what they primary machines are doing. For that reason my primary work machine can currently only be Linux. I have Windows, but this one is only for stuff that is incompatible with Linux. I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s). That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. Which is quit…

neigh: what horsies say nigh: near, nearly

nay: unless, of course, the force of course is the famous grandparent

2c: Had an XPS15 die the other day, won't buy another. Also sworn off Apple hardware. Using Lenovo laptop. All good.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#203

Post by discreditable »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

I've seen issues with Modern Standby on my fleet of Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga L13 and L13 Gen 2. Usually everything is fine, but sometimes they get super hot in standby as well. It's like something is keeping the CPU awake but the rest of the hardware is asleep (including the fans). My older units (ThinkPad Yoga 260, ThinkPad Yoga 370, ThinkPad L380 Yoga, ThinkPad L390 Yoga) never had any problem like this because they don't support Modern Standby.

It's very annoying that MS doesn't allow us any way to disable Modern Standby. OEMs still haven't figured out how to make old school sleep perfectly reliable. Springing a new standby model on them was doomed to be just troublesome.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#204

Post by julianlam »

I find this feature(tm) infuriating. It's one of the first things I disable when I format the laptop.

The battery drain for me much more significant, on the order of 30% per day. Oftentimes I would open my laptop after a day or two and it would be at a critical level if not outright dead.

I kept forgetting exactly how to fix it, since finding the right sites online required quite the exact combination of black magic keywords (since it's much easier to find articles sleep vs hibernation). Until today, actually, I had not been aware of the term "modern suspend".

I use Linux, so here's how to disable modern suspend: https://devnull.land/laptop-s2idle-to-deep

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#205

Post by Pxtl »

I had to bust out the PowerShell console on my windows machine to manipulate its wake sources to block it from waking on LAN since something would wake it within 10 minutes after sleep every time.

I can't imagine how infuriating that would be if it were a laptop and that behavior was running down the battery and heating it up.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#206

Post by npteljes »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #4

Clickbait. What they actually say: " Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The PC will overheat as a result of that action. Any resulting damage will not be covered by the Dell warranty. " Fair enough. A laptop that overheats because it's been left in an enclosed space whilst not off is not damage caus…

Absolutely fair, from Dell's POV.

The fault lies with Microsoft, mismanaging the user expectations about shutting down the computer.

The computer should absolutely not wake up from sleep to do things, if the result could be that it overheats. It's like saying people shouldn't pocket their smartphones.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#207

Post by vladvasiliu »

einnhverr wrote: post #195
sprayk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

I don't know precisely how secure boot works under fedora, but you can have FDE with swap just fine in Linux. A swap partition can live inside a LVM logical volume. For secure boot I would guess you could have the EFI partition signed/validated with the TPM.

This.

In my case, I use SecureBoot to check the boot image's signature (contains the kernel + initrd + boot params). Then it starts everything from an LVM that lives on top of LUKS. I always have to type in the password (never bothered to get the TPM working), but I don't see why the TPM wouldn't be able to do it.

From the system boot point of view, it just starts an OS. The OS will then proceed to load some data in RAM. It's its business whether this is "fresh" data for a new boot, or "old" data from the last boot.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#208

Post by d110af5ccf »

sprayk wrote: post #186
kawsper wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

if you use secure boot, you cannot use hibernation under fedora (or any Linux, afaik) since there is no way to "seal" the hibernation image from modification by an attacker who could mount the swap on another OS where they have root. this is regardless of disk encryption.

"Cannot" this is not true. It might not satisfy some sort of branding requirement but at the end of the day all a secure boot implementation does under the hood is to verify the kernel against the signing keys stored in the firmware before handing off control to it. The kernel can do whatever it pleases after that including granting you root access, joining a botnet, or, indeed, loading a hibernation image.

As for security, the hibernation image is at risk unless you use full disk encryption. But then (last time I checked) so is the typical Linux distro because ultimately you (the end user) have complete control over the OS. That means that at some point the kernel has to load and run privileged code that was never signed by some central authority. The only alternative to this would be sending all drivers to be signed by someone else, even those you built yourself from source.

tl;dr You can in fact use hibernation if you set it up, even with secure boot. Doing so is not a security issue. Lack of full disk encryption is always a security issue if physical access is an attack vector you are concerned about.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#209

Post by vladvasiliu »

sprayk wrote: post #187
y4mi wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? My drive can write with up to 3gb/s. I only have 32 gb of ram, so the process should take at most 10s. Generally less, as a lot is usually free.

you have 32 GiB of RAM, gibibytes, meaning 32 * 1024^3. does your drive write at 3 GB/s (gigabytes) or Gb/s (gigabits)? if little b bits, it'll be more like 80 sec

Probably "big b". 3 Gb/s (small b) is approximately 350 MB/s (big b).

My 9-year-old SATA SSD does better than that.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#210

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

kawsper wrote: post #167
zokier wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hibernation in Windows hasn't gone anywhere. I have a Dell laptop in front of me and it has hibernate in the start menu as normal. Problem is that hibernation is slooow so people don't like to use it

Fedora doesn't even create swap partitions anymore, so you have to enable that first to enable hibernation, enabling it requires you to create a swap-partition, change things in systemd and meddle with the grub-configuration: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/fedora-hibernate.html

If you create a swap partition manually during installation and there's no secure boot, Fedora will put the "resume=" parameter into your grub config automatically.
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