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Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

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Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#251
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked on the bug bounty program for a large company. We did the whole thing. It’s hard. The part you’re talking about can be the hardest. Is probably less than believable to read because it sounds like it should be easy. I don’t have any good answers there. I’m also not suggesting that customers and researchers accept that, but saying it’s easy just diminishes the efforts of those that run good ones.

could you try litle bit harder to provide any example why it is "harder than it looks". you repeated multiple times that its hard, but what exactly(aproximately) makes it hard?

It's mostly just 'human factors'. What I'm describing below applies across the spectrum of bug reports from fake to huge to everything in between. Nothing of what I'm listing below is an attempt to directly explain or rationalize events in the article, it's just some context from my (anecdotal) experience.

- The security researcher community is composed of a broad spectrum of people. Most of them are amazing. However, there is a portion of complete assholes. They send in lazy work, claim bugs like scalps and get super aggressive privately and publicly if things don't go their way or bugs don't get fixed fast enough or someone questions their claims (particularly about severity). This grates on everybody in the chain from the triagers to the product engineers.

- Some bounty programs are horribly run. They drop the ball constantly, ignore reports, drag fixes out for months and months, undercut severity...all of which impact payout to the researcher. These stories get a lot of traction in the community, diminishing trust in the model and exacerbating the previous point because nobody wants to be had.

- Bug bounties create financial incentives to report bugs, which means that you get a lot of bullshit reports to wade through and catastrophization of even the smallest issues. (Check out @CluelessSec aka BugBountyKing on twitter for parodies but kind of not) This reduces SnR and allows actual major issues to sit around because at first glance they aren't always distinguishable from garbage.

- In large orgs, bug bounties are typically run through the infosec and/or risk part of the organization. Their interface to the affected product teams is going to generally be through product owners and/or existing vulnerability reporting mechanisms. Sometimes this is complicated by subsidiary relationships and/or outsourced development. In any case, these bugs will enter the pool of broader security bugs that have been identified through internal scanning tools, security assessments, pen tests and other reports. Just because someone reported them from the outside doesn't mean they get moved to the top of the priority heap.

- Again in most cases, product owns the bug. Which means that even though it has been triaged, the product team generally still has a lot of discretion about what to do with it. If its a major issue and the product team stalls then you end up with major escalations through EVP/legal channels. These conversations can get heated.

- The bugs themselves often lack context and are randomly distributed through the codebase. Most of the time the development teams are busy cranking out new features, burning down tech debt or otherwise have their focus directed to specific parts of the product. They are used to getting things like static analysis reports saying 'hey commit you just sent through could have a sql injection' and fixing it without skipping a beat (or more likely showing its a false positive). When bug reports come in from the outside, the code underlying the issue may have not been touched for literally years, the teams that built it could be gone, and it could be slated for replacement in the next quarter.

- Some of the bugs people find are actually hard to solve and/or the people in the product teams don't fully understand the mechanism of action and put in place basic countermeasures that are easily defeated. This exacerbates the problem, especially if there's an asshole researcher on the other end of the line that just goes out and immediately starts dunking on them on social media.

- Most bugs are just simple human error and the teams surrounding the person that did the commit are going to typically want to come to their defense just out of camaraderie and empathy. This is going to have a net chilling effect on barn burners that come through because people don't want to burn their buddies at the stake.

All of this to say it takes a lot of culture tending and diplomacy on the part of the bounty runners to manage these factors while trying to make sure each side lives up to their end of the bargain. Most of running a bounty is administrative and applied technical security skills, this part is not...which is why I said it can be the hardest.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#252

Why anyone at Apple decided that it was acceptable to log medical data in such an unsafe way? I currently work in an IT health care company in Europe, and we must alway store the data fully encrypted with strict access control. We even decided to not make sure to not persist any medical data on user devices to not take unnecessary risks. And there, Apple logs everything on the iPhone? Why?

I have some doubt with respect to whether what author claims is "medical data" is indeed medical. Practically speaking, the data he mentions seems like the things collected by Apple Watch and stored in the Health app. There is indeed heart rate tracking, but can we really label this data as medical? IMHO "medical" would relate more to professional diagnosis, treatment etc. which according to Apple is stored in an enc…

Diagnostic data is a category of medical data. So yes, that stuff is considering medical data.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#253

Why anyone at Apple decided that it was acceptable to log medical data in such an unsafe way? I currently work in an IT health care company in Europe, and we must alway store the data fully encrypted with strict access control. We even decided to not make sure to not persist any medical data on user devices to not take unnecessary risks. And there, Apple logs everything on the iPhone? Why?

I have some doubt with respect to whether what author claims is "medical data" is indeed medical. Practically speaking, the data he mentions seems like the things collected by Apple Watch and stored in the Health app. There is indeed heart rate tracking, but can we really label this data as medical? IMHO "medical" would relate more to professional diagnosis, treatment etc. which according to Apple is stored in an enc…

According to the GDPR health data is a special category that needs extra care and heart rate falls in that category:

"Information derived from the testing or examination of a body part or bodily substance"

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, I would HATE if the US follows the EU with this craziness. I'm already sick of the cookie popups, now layer on the GDPR insanity and we will definitely lose the privacy fight to users who will be sick of this nonsense as well. I've seen studies that show crap like GDPR (which makes basically all normal interaction cumbersome) has like 10% of folks clicking around to "opt-out" while 90% can't be bothered. And of…

> crap like GDPR (which makes basically all normal interaction cumbersome) Only if you count "tracking users on first visit before they do anything else" as normal. Otherwise, there isn't a banner needed; sites could simply have a link to opt-in to tracking in the header or footer, and not track unless the user opts in. This is like passing a law making it illegal to just hit people in the street, requiring you have…

You cannot claim that GDPR is a good law, not with the galaxy-sized loophole where you can track the vast majority of people just like before, as long as your annoy them first.

Better than nothing, sure, but not good.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#255
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, I would HATE if the US follows the EU with this craziness. I'm already sick of the cookie popups, now layer on the GDPR insanity and we will definitely lose the privacy fight to users who will be sick of this nonsense as well. I've seen studies that show crap like GDPR (which makes basically all normal interaction cumbersome) has like 10% of folks clicking around to "opt-out" while 90% can't be bothered. And of…

The only interactions made cumbersome by GDPR are those with organizations that abuse their users/customers’ data. Otherwise you don’t even need a cookie banner.

So, all of them.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#256
post #158
post #7

This is such an incredible amount of vulnerable mission-critical data. - all contacts, including 3rd party messaging apps, with metadata (interactions, timestamps, other stats) - full address book - whether any app is installed - SSID of connected wifi and formerly, - medical info - device usage - screen time - device accessories I don't keep anything mission critical on mobile, but this is still a gargantuan set of…

The only mitigating factor is that they’re not remote vulnerabilities. That being said, this is more or less the industry standard. And even if the other person mentioning this was downvoted, they are right: this has been the case since forever and can only be remedied through laws making companies responsible for their failures. But neither the US government nor said companies want this. It will have to get so bad t…

And if you try to deploy these in an actual app, you will be getting banned very, very hard.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, you have a coffee machine that is capable of being compromised? How exactly? Further to this, you claim that you have been compromised on HUNDREDS of sites even though you use a unique password everywhere? How is this happening to you? Isn't this a huge concern?

Right, it’s hard to compromise a kettle and manual grinder, the only thing I could possibly consider a benefit of a networked coffee machine is you can schedule it/script it with home assistant. But even then, I’m pretty sure you can buy simple electric ones with timers…

Only if it is HTCPCP(-TEA) compatible. Otherwise they should not bother.

/s, since it is not the specialized coffee machine on the office floor which is the biggest problem but the thousands of ones at home where people do not even bother to firewall it.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other day I tried to update my Macbook over a personal hotspot and it happily downloaded about 2GB before the computer went to sleep and I was greeted with a "Whoopsie, failed to download the update, try again" message when I woke it and, of course, it would just start over again. They don't even support resuming the download! That's just embarrassing.

Strangely I did the same thing last night and it did resume, although you only see the resumption when it starts. There's no prior indication that it will resume.

it depends on your free storage. if it is less than X % they will try to download it one go. the resumable download will download all in chunks and than concat them.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#259
post #7

This is such an incredible amount of vulnerable mission-critical data. - all contacts, including 3rd party messaging apps, with metadata (interactions, timestamps, other stats) - full address book - whether any app is installed - SSID of connected wifi and formerly, - medical info - device usage - screen time - device accessories I don't keep anything mission critical on mobile, but this is still a gargantuan set of…

Is that really the case? Or were they just not such a big target before when everyone was spending most of their time in a windows desktop. Maybe they just got away with it more easily in the past.

Re: Disclosure of three 0-day iOS vulnerabilities

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like much more of an organisational dysfunction problem than a computer science problem. I haven’t heard anything like this about Microsoft or Google: both seem responsive and eager to fix within 90 days (mostly), have responsible browser update models (where fixes for 0 days can be pushed to the whole world within hours) instead of Apple’s irresponsible “you need a 3GB OS update even if the only fix is 3…

> but iOS updates can’t be done on 4G > This isn’t an “anecdote” or an edge case, not everyone lives in a developed country and millions are just like my grandma In too many countries, mobile data is incredibly expensive. If Apple were to allow over-the-air OS updates, you can bet it would take only a week until the first class-action lawsuit by people having their data caps blown through because they did not underst…

Google makes you explicitly confirm that you want to download using cellular each time you update, noting that it might induce charges. There, fixed, how come geniuses at apple haven’t considered this? Given how nowadays there’s a toggle for 5G and someone on hn told me it’s due to contract with carriers, I reckon the answer is that sweet sweet money.
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