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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

dell.com

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#121

Post by thaumasiotes »

RGamma wrote: post #107
thaumasiotes wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Dell laptop I bought within the last couple of months. Hibernate is not in the start menu, and the option to add it to the start menu has been disabled. It's still possible to assign "hibernate" as the action taken in response to various power-related actions such as closing the lid or pressing the power button. This makes no sense; I'm not sure what's going on.

You can enable the start menu hibernate button in advanced power settings: System -> Power & sleep -> Additional power settings -> Choose what the power buttons do -> Change settings that are currently unavailable -> Check Hibernate. And then get lucky that your laptop wakes up again (mine dies 1 out of 10 times) Edit: sorry, can't read.

No, you can't; that option is disabled. It cannot be checked. I don't know how I can state this more clearly.

"Turn on fast startup (recommended)" is checked, and that option is also disabled and can't be unchecked, despite obviously being undesirable.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#122

Post by jraph »

hvidgaard wrote: post #108
jraph wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the thread just next to your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640283 It's also Macs. Computers are complicated, some things are probably released with a tight schedule, things are not formally verified, and therefore have bugs. Hardware or software. It's sad but we have to deal with it. Sleep has been working well on Linux on the machines I've been using for the past years (especially after removi…

> It's sad but we have to deal with it. We can absolutely both meet reasonable innovation and deadlines with formal verification. It's just that no one wants to pay for it.

I'm interested in examples you may have, as someone who once flirted with formal methods.

The most practical use of formal method I witnessed is model checking (with TLA+), but that does not check the actual implementation.

There's also CompCert, a formally verified C compiler written in Coq, but even then, some parts are not verified so the final product may still have bugs.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#123

Post by joeberon »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #114
joeberon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

I've never had any of that happen with either of my $1000 MacBook Pros, from 2013 and 2017 respectively. Now I just got a 2020 M1 MBP, we'll see how that goes but it seems great so far

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#124

Post by rawbot »

creshal wrote: post #58
Raed667 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laptop overheating if being put in the backpack I killed a macbook air exactly like this. It just decided not to shutdown like usual. Usually I'd put it on sleep mode, or just close the lid and it is fine, but it only took one time for it not to work properly to find the insides of my backpack like a sauna.

> It just decided not to shutdown like usual. This happened once or twice with Windows laptops for me (Lenovo and Asus); but each time the laptop survived. Was yours a fanless model?

Same thing happened to me with my Surface Book. I found it the next day with fans at max and burning hot. Still survived. Why aren't laptops shutting down when the CPU gets unbearably hot?

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#125

Post by tomp »

jraph wrote: post #96
tomp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, it's quite fascinating what you non-Mac people are willing to put up with. Or maybe it's fascinating how Mac JustWorks(TM).

Read the thread just next to your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28640283 It's also Macs. Computers are complicated, some things are probably released with a tight schedule, things are not formally verified, and therefore have bugs. Hardware or software. It's sad but we have to deal with it. Sleep has been working well on Linux on the machines I've been using for the past years (especially after removi…

I've been using macs for the past 10 years, and I've never had this problem. I've never even thought about it! I close the lid, I open it, it just works.

Maybe it's just my (2013 Pro and M1 Air), or maybe in the meantime the quality dipped... All in all, as I often say, the best advertisement for Apple is all the other computers.

> I've taken the habit of checking that the computer actually went to sleep before putting it in a bag and you should, too, for the one time your Mac won't go to sleep because who knows why.

How would you even do that? If I open the lid (even just a bit), it turns back on immediately. Also, why do you think it would overheat if it accidentally didn't go to sleep? It's not like it's using fans while being turned on.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#126

Post by rawbot »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #114
joeberon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Same thing with my MBP from 2018.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#127

Post by hexo »

matkoniecz wrote: post #25
174SIGSEGV wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I would personally consider damage caused by an unreliable suspend mode (whether an issue of software or hardware) to be an example of manufacturer defect.

The problem is that Windows defect breaks laptops not under warranty by Microsoft. Getting refund would be tricky, and voiding Dell warranty in such case seems justified.

The problem is that windows is bundled, so they are definitely responsible for putting defective software on their defective laptop. Putting suspended laptop in a backpack cannot void warranty. This is like from another universe or what.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#128

Post by FlyingAvatar »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #114
joeberon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to lie but Apple have put pretty high standards on what people expect to work with all laptops nowadays, and many OEMs seem unable or unwilling to try to catch up.

I have a 2020 MBP, and it's as shitty as any high end Windows laptop I've used. The thermals are awful under moderate CPU use, the fan spins when using an external monitor, the battery vampire drains when it's shut for an extended time instead of saving memory to disk and shutting off. I think what really happens is people compare $1k Dells with $3k Apples. I'm looking forward to an M1X MBP, though. That may legitima…

Regarding the problem discussed in the article, the Dell could easily cost $3,000, and the problem would not exist a $1000 MacBook, even an Intel one.

In this case, I think it’s Apple’s proper prioritization of features. Probably also that Apple is able to do this because they don’t have to work on dozens of different models at the same time.

It’s amazing to me that no major PC manufacturers have really done this yet.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#129

Post by zelphirkalt »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to turn on, when the lid is even closed only, because they are in range of some WLAN? What a silly setting. This has probably fried many machines and also probably their owners still do not know, that Windows was the culprit, not their hardware. Fortunately my way home was not long at that time, so the overheating was avoided in time multiple times, until I figured out what was going on. Well, now I do not use Windows any longer, except rarely, so no such issues.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#130

Post by dTal »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

Something seems a bit off with your numbers. If you're losing 5% of your battery "overnight" (at least 8 hours I assume), and you have the larger 86Wh battery, that implies a discharge rate of only 537mW.

900mw - nearly a whole watt - seems very high! Easily enough to cause noticeable warming - a running modern laptop at idle only uses 3-6 watts.

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