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Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

dev.epicgames.com

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Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#221

Post by corobo »

half-kh-hacker wrote: post #156
judge2020 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little skeptical that that's the case. When I cheated in CS:GO years ago (1856 days ago in 2016), I specifically remember being unable to see where people went at the beginning of the round, and sniping double-doors on dust2 showed people only when they were about to pass by the opening. This was on official competitive servers, so maybe you only mean self-hosted servers don't have FOW.

Another source engine cheat dev here. Source has had dormant entities at long ranges in culled-off areas [sectors of the map demarcated by func_areaportal] since... as long as I can remember. Your cheat couldn't see those players because the server was doing a very cheap and primitive visibility calculation, deciding the player entities are dormant for you, and choosing to not send you the data for them. This is diff…

> Your cheat couldn't see those players

Would an anticheat work if you did the opposite of this? Send the client random movement data above and behind them and if they spin and shoot towards it instant permaban forever

Random wonder. I have no idea in or around anticheating, please do feel free to shred it as an idea to pieces

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#222

Post by jay_kyburz »

015a wrote: post #93
peanut_worm wrote: post #7

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

I'll go on the record and say above 5% by December 31st 2022. Depending on who you ask, its at ~2% today. If that feels high to you, remember: it includes Chromebooks. As it grows, you'll absolutely hear people say "Chromebooks" or "Steam Decks should be their own category, they don't count". These arguments effectively reduce to "Linux cannot be popular, so I'll move the goalposts so it never is." Ignore them, and p…

Woah, I'm a linux gamer but %5 by 23 is crazy. Steam Deck is going to be super niche, and a lot of people over on reddit are already planning how they will install Windows on it.

It's not going to explode. It will creep up very slowly.

And lets not forget that Microsoft will combat it if it starts to take off. Game pass is already and incredible deal. We have it in our house for the xbox.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#223

Post by judge2020 »

oliwarner wrote: post #209
judge2020 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the VAC games on that list, CS:GO, TF2, and Dota 2, have effectively given up on actually detecting and preventing cheaters and now rely on server-based or community-consensus methods of finding and punishing cheaters (with TF2 being the exception with how little maintenance Valve performs on it). Both CS:GO and Dota 2 have a report+overwatch system where users watch a replay to determine if someone…

Community moderation with persistent outcomes (eg VAC ban) is great for games you have to pay for, but it's really abrasive to a F2P community if there's am endless stream of cheaters.

Both CS:GO and Dota are F2P, but yes, most cheaters just purchase new accounts/create new accounts. They've had to put mitigations for this like requiring x hours/x games to play competitive game modes.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#224

Post by samtheDamned »

legohead wrote: post #146
peanut_worm wrote: post #7

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

why would anyone other than programmers/devops/IT pros have anything to do with Linux?

I could see it becoming big with pc gamers for how much you can tweak the OS itself to eek out as much performance as you can get. They also tend to want to personalize their PCs a lot and with linux they'd have a whole new level to that with the customizability of the desktop experience itself.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#225

Post by pstrateman »

TillE wrote: post #151
nightowl_games wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a startup opportunity. Lookin' forward to the pitch deck!

What kind of massive startup ROI are you expecting to make from a highly niche bit of middleware? Just because something is possible doesn't make it profitable.

Worse the game publishers make more money from cheaters than from legit players.

Cheaters have to keep re-buying the game when they get banned.

The incentives are for publishers to ban cheaters... but not too fast... and that's exactly what we see happening in practice.

Kinda interesting huh

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#226

Post by __turbobrew__ »

Has there ever been any attempts to construct a “credit score” for online gaming? At the end of the day anti-cheat measures can always be bypassed because the cheater owns the hardware which the game runs upon. On top of that I don’t trust game developers with installing an anti-cheat rootkit on my device. I would much rather have an online credit score which takes into account the number of games you own, how old your account is, the number of high credit friends you have on your friends list, etc… to calculate a “online gaming credit score” which matches you with others who have a similar “online credit score”. Getting caught cheating causes all of your friends to lose credit score therefore incentivizing online groups to self police and cheaters to be ostracized.

There are issues where new players will tend to get shafted by the scoring system but there can be certain routes to boost your score quickly such as providing some personally identifying information or spending more money within the game.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#227

Post by Avery3R »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #226

Has there ever been any attempts to construct a “credit score” for online gaming? At the end of the day anti-cheat measures can always be bypassed because the cheater owns the hardware which the game runs upon. On top of that I don’t trust game developers with installing an anti-cheat rootkit on my device. I would much rather have an online credit score which takes into account the number of games you own, how old yo…

Yes, valve did this with their "trust score" in cs:go

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#228

Post by superkuh »

peanut_worm wrote: post #7

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

Not if Epic keeps buying independent video games that support linux, saying they won't change anything, then 6 months later removing linux as a playable platform (rocket league). That they're trying to develop a linux anti-cheat does not indicate they will actually support linux. It doesn't even indicate they won't actively kill linux games as their long history proves.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#229

Post by 0xFreebie »

You know, PvE is really underrated. I find playing against bots to be more fun, easier to gauge skill progress, and a better time with friends than playing against overmatched humans, whether cheating or not.

Losing 50% of your matches isn't fun. The alternative of losing 90% for months before winning 90% isn't inviting either.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#230

Post by BitAstronaut »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #117
temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

To be honest I have completely given up on competitive fps games. The cheating situation has only gotten worse and I really don't see anti-cheat makers winning.

How does Stadia play a role in this? I don't play video games outside of Football Manager so not knowledgeable in the area but I recall reading about the competitive scene of one of these games moving over to the service due to the cheating.
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