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Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

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Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#31

Post by cdirkx »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #21
josteink wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those permissions have pretty clear use-cases which benefits the user itself and enables things which otherwise wouldn’t be possible. What user-oriented use-cases does this enable which couldn’t have been done otherwise? I really thinks this is apples vs oranges.

Usually the W3C spec for new features like this will contain a few paragraphs outlining intended use cases. In this case: > Making these distinctions is important for applications which have the option of delivering notifications across multiple devices, such as a desktop and smartphone. Users may find it frustrating when notifications are delivered to the wrong device or are disruptive. For example, if they switch f…

> the messaging application, not being able to observe that the user is still interacting with their device, may assume that they have left to grab a coffee and start delivering notifications to their phone, causing it to buzz distractingly, instead of displaying notifications on their desktop or incrementing a badge count.

Is any webapp doing this? To me it sounds like multiple steps into the future:

- First a webapp has to have the capability to notify just one device, so in this case your browser and not also your phone. I cant think of an app where you dont receive double notifications on web+mobile (or triple with a smartwatch).

- The webapp then needs to be smart enough to dynamically select the "most active" device to send the notification to.

- The new feature can then be used as a workaround for "incorrectly" classifying your computer as an inactive device, because you are not interacting with the webpage anymore.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#32

Post by bityard »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #28
nyanpasu64 wrote: post #6

I already don't really like how websites can detect whether a tab is active or not (perhaps because callbacks/timers get delayed when a tab is inactive?). For example, dslreports's speedtest fails your measurement if you switch tabs, and Duo's web 2FA interface fails to approve a device which you've set to remember for 30 days if you're in a different tab.

You know who loves to use this feature? Recaptcha! When browsing Firefox in Incognito mode with uBlock Origin and uMatrix fully active, the Recaptcha challenges load painfully slowly. Like each picture might take upwards of five seconds to refresh. And to my delight, I have noticed that if I flip away from that tab while the panels are refreshing, they pause until I bring the tab back into active focus. It's a slap i…

I see the same thing on the chase.com web site.

When I log into my account, it starts up some react or angular type bullcrap that takes literally 5-10 seconds to fully load no matter what computer I'm on or what browser I'm in. If I switch away to another tab to do something else while it's doing that, _it will never fully load_. The only option is to sit there with the tab open and stare at it until my account information appears.

In 2021, I guess I should just be happy that they're not showing me ad while wasting my time.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#33

Post by [deleted] »

oblib wrote: post #2

"As you might expect, developers love this new feature—anything that can provide them with more information regarding how users are interacting with their apps is a positive." Here I am deliberately designing apps that track no user interaction data at all. Maybe that's why Google doesn't even list my app even though it's one of the longest running "web apps" alive and used to be listed #1 when it first came out. Now…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#34

Post by Narretz »

oblib wrote: post #2

"As you might expect, developers love this new feature—anything that can provide them with more information regarding how users are interacting with their apps is a positive." Here I am deliberately designing apps that track no user interaction data at all. Maybe that's why Google doesn't even list my app even though it's one of the longest running "web apps" alive and used to be listed #1 when it first came out. Now…

This API isn't equivalent with tracking. You can use this state entirely in the browser, without sending / storing the user behavior anywhere.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#35

Post by foxfluff »

afavour wrote: post #19

I am a privacy-conscious person but I really wish these debates could be a little more nuanced. This API is behind a permission prompt that can only be triggered in response to a user gesture, so the bar to entry is high. The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful! IMO I ought to have the ability to cash in some of my privacy chips (so to speak) on a site tha…

> The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful!

Every single feature on the web that gets misused has some useful applications too. For me, the useful applications hardly ever outweigh the downsides. The web has been getting progressively worse and worse.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#37

Post by kube-system »

ghuin wrote: post #3

As long as you're asked for permission I don't see the problem

There's two reasons why I think it's a bad idea, along with a number of other Chrome APIs:

1. Most people aren't engineers and don't understand the privacy implications of this, and these types of metadata collections. Browsers aren't just developer tools, they are made for the general public.

2. I already get spammed by too many permission popups; rarely are they for purposes that benefit the user. It would be interested to see some stats on how many users simply accept these popups to dismiss them without regard for the consequences.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#38

Post by mikojan »

afavour wrote: post #19

I am a privacy-conscious person but I really wish these debates could be a little more nuanced. This API is behind a permission prompt that can only be triggered in response to a user gesture, so the bar to entry is high. The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful! IMO I ought to have the ability to cash in some of my privacy chips (so to speak) on a site tha…

> The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful!

Okay, but you can already do that.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#39

Post by dheera »

afavour wrote: post #19

I am a privacy-conscious person but I really wish these debates could be a little more nuanced. This API is behind a permission prompt that can only be triggered in response to a user gesture, so the bar to entry is high. The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful! IMO I ought to have the ability to cash in some of my privacy chips (so to speak) on a site tha…

> active/away status

This can easily be abused for stalkerish behavior. Even read receipts in chat apps like Facebook should be able to be disabled by the user. (You can, with some JS injection, but basically that means programmers' privacy is respected and non-programmers' privacy is violated.)

Also micromanagement.

I once had a coworker who would "pounce" on me when my Slack status became active, instead of respecting the time I needed to code. I had to set my Slack status to always away.

Re: Mozilla says Chrome’s latest feature enables surveillance

#40

Post by afavour »

foxfluff wrote: post #35
afavour wrote: post #19

I am a privacy-conscious person but I really wish these debates could be a little more nuanced. This API is behind a permission prompt that can only be triggered in response to a user gesture, so the bar to entry is high. The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful! IMO I ought to have the ability to cash in some of my privacy chips (so to speak) on a site tha…

> The example on web.dev is a chat app that would automatically set an active/away status: seems useful! Every single feature on the web that gets misused has some useful applications too. For me, the useful applications hardly ever outweigh the downsides. The web has been getting progressively worse and worse.

> Every single feature on the web that gets misused has some useful applications too.

That's why you have the permission prompt.

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