Looks like Theranos to me.
Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
61–70 of 124 posts
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#62If the founders are around... trying to understand their economics. They claim to sell Jet A at the market clearing price. Jet A goes for $0.45/L. The lowest industrial electricity rates in the US are $0.05/kWh (double that in California where they are selling today.) With 100% efficiency, no capital costs and no other opex, you get $0.05/kWh * 9.5 kWh/L = $0.47/L electrofuel Jet A. How can that work?
> How can that work?
Theranos 2.0 ?
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've done a decent amount of research on Prometheus Fuels, and I'm a believer. They've licensed a couple of key technologies out of Oak Ridge. First is a catalyst that converts CO2 + H2O + electricity directly into ethanol. The other is a membrane with parallel carbon nanotubes that are just the right size to filter that ethanol. The rest of the business involves the chemical conversion of pure ethanol into other typ…
I myself don't like much how my brain sees Musk everywhere, yet I think similar methanol production will first come from SpaceX for Mars. Also i wonder whether moonshine style distillation is worse than the carbon nanotubes membrane filtration, especially if you have a source of cheap waste heat.
I've often wondered if I could justify a crypto mining rig if I used the waste heat for something, literally anything, useful. The tech is interesting and I want to for the sake of "doing something cool" but the environmental cost has me iffy on ever trying.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I myself don't like much how my brain sees Musk everywhere, yet I think similar methanol production will first come from SpaceX for Mars. Also i wonder whether moonshine style distillation is worse than the carbon nanotubes membrane filtration, especially if you have a source of cheap waste heat.
Distillation is pretty expensive, energy-wise, and if you can't run continuously [e.g. if you're trying to use cheap intermittent renewables] you lose energy in the cooling-and-reheating cycles. I have yet to see a significant source of usable "waste" heat that's not already being used for something else. Low-grade heat isn't helpful--you generally need reasonably high temperature differentials in order to power larg…
Well that answers my question about crypto waste heat and useful work.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their goal is to reduce the amount of jet fuel they have to haul around. Which has economic consequences :)
No it's more about survivability. Tankers are a vulnerable part of the logistic train. And storing large amounts of fuel is a fire risk.
Ok let's get pedantic.
Not having to store fuel means:
- I have to spend less money on logistics because I don't have to put out fires, I don't have to train people to put out fires, I don't have to hire people, etc. etc.
- Less fuel needed to be held means more working capital needed for energy consumption, less time to fuel up.
- Less fire risk means I have to allocate less money for risk based allocations (insurance, hospitalization for people getting burnt, emergency planning and services required to deal with fires, etc.)
- Less fuel means the cost to create an aircraft carrier is much less
- A smaller fuel tank required means a smaller overall aircraft carrier, which means I spend less
- etc etc.
This is by all means an economic decision.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#66Here's the relevant text, since the website makes it hard to get to.
We’re excited to announce the close of our Series B funding round, with investment by Maersk, Metaplanet, and BMW. As a result of the round, we’ve achieved a $1.5 Billion valuation, making us the world’s first electrofuels unicorn.
This month, we received strong support from the White House, as well as some of world’s largest, most iconic brands that have been nothing short of bold in backing innovative tech to decarbonize their industries — American Airlines, Maersk, and BMW. Their support marks a rising recognition of the incredible promise that our zero net carbon electrofuels hold in getting the planet to Net Zero by 2050.
On September 9, the Biden administration included Prometheus and our zero net carbon electro-Sustainable Aviation Fuel, or electro-SAF, in its plan to phase out fossil jet fuel and make aviation carbon neutral by 2050.
American Airlines, responding to the White House’s goal, cited our zero net carbon electro-SAF as key to decarbonizing its fleet, which, at over 880 aircraft, is the world’s largest. The airline’s support came on the heels of its recent agreement to buy 10 million gallons of our fuel.
Said Doug Parker, American Airlines Chairman and CEO: “We’re excited to partner with Prometheus to scale up the production of zero net carbon electrofuels. Their ability to produce 100% carbon neutral SAF at a price lower than fossil jet fuel and to not be limited in the scale of future production is the strongest indicator we’ve seen that a 100% carbon neutral aviation future can be achieved in time.”
Maersk Growth, the venture arm of A.P. Moller - Maersk, led our Series B round. Maersk, the world’s largest container logistics company, responsible for moving nearly 17% of the world’s container capacity, has been a take-no-prisoners, accept-no-half-measures trailblazer in decarbonizing its operations and the maritime shipping industry at large.
So we were honored when Maersk’s Head of Decarbonization, Morten Bo Christiansen, had this to say: “Prometheus Fuels is developing a very exciting and innovative technology to produce carbon based electrofuels from direct air capture of CO2. Electrofuels are expected to play a key role for the decarbonisation of shipping and, if scaled successfully, Prometheus Fuels’ technology will address a key constraint for carbon based electrofuels — namely the cost competitiveness of direct air capture.”
BMW i Ventures, who led our Series A round last year, doubled-down to join our Series B as well.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#67Here's the relevant text, since the website makes it hard to get to. We’re excited to announce the close of our Series B funding round, with investment by Maersk, Metaplanet, and BMW. As a result of the round, we’ve achieved a $1.5 Billion valuation, making us the world’s first electrofuels unicorn. This month, we received strong support from the White House, as well as some of world’s largest, most iconic brands tha…
Thanks!, their website is completely unusable so this helps a ton.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it's more about survivability. Tankers are a vulnerable part of the logistic train. And storing large amounts of fuel is a fire risk.
Ok let's get pedantic. Not having to store fuel means: - I have to spend less money on logistics because I don't have to put out fires, I don't have to train people to put out fires, I don't have to hire people, etc. etc. - Less fuel needed to be held means more working capital needed for energy consumption, less time to fuel up. - Less fire risk means I have to allocate less money for risk based allocations (insuran…
No that's nonsense. The ships will still have all the same fire fighting equipment and they will continue the same damage control training for crews. If this fuel synthesis technology is built into future aircraft carriers then they won't be any smaller or cheaper. The large size is a requirement to maintain high sortie rates and handle rough seas, and reducing the size wouldn't significantly reduce costs (steel is cheap). If anything they will be more expensive due to the complex machinery and increased power generation requirements.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#691.5B valuation and yet their UX is total shit and basically unusable.
Their product is selling shares. If you are looking at the UX or the tech, you aren't their target market.
Re: Prometheus Fuels (YC W19) Closes Series B with $1.5B Valuation
#70They seem to be heavy on vision, marketing and zero-net-carbon partnerships with huge brands, light on technical detail (i wouldn't hate some links to papers or a PoC of their reactor or something), all of which feels a little Nikola-y. Thin articles touching on the technology: https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/meet-our-v3-faraday-... https://prometheusfuels.com/on-the-road/worlds-1st-machine-t... Hopefully som…
Its nothing like Nikola, its Faraday!