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Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

symboliclogic.io

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Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#51

Post by NortySpock »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

Congrats on finding and resolving your carpal tunnel problem. I switched to a basic wireless trackball[1] about 5 years into my career (10 years in industry) which has kept me mostly pain free since I can avoid moving my wrist.

Still might need to look for a better keyboard and a slightly better trackball, but for anyone reading this with minor pain: don't ignore it. Try new things early and try to reduce your pain, even minor twinges as much as possible early, since, well, I expect to be in this game for the long haul.

[1] Logitech M570

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#52

Post by wolrah »

cma wrote: post #40
flylikeabanana wrote: post #13

I find it really odd that the OP is staring down the barrel of an RSI that's going to inexorably lock them (presumably) out of their career and passion, but the learning curve for a proper ergonomic keyboard seemed to high. I was up to an acceptable 40WPM on the Ergodox a week after switching, and his complaints about " the Cherry MX" switches fall a little flat since there's about a dozen different kinds, all with d…

Switching to ortholinear can really mess you up when you have to use a laptop or colleague's keyboard.

I've been using a Moonlander exclusively on my desktop since November 2020 while having no trouble continuing to use a Macbook Air or my old Acer laptop.

The differently placed modifier keys on the laptops screw me up infinitely more than going from an ortholinear split to a laptop and back.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#53

Post by lancefisher »

When I broke my clavicle, I rigged up a second keyboard that I could use with my arm in a sling: https://live-fts.flickr.com/photos/lancefisher/4293591069/in...

It worked really well! The biggest downside was that I had to use modifier keys on the same keyboard as the key I was modifying. e.g. right shift and l to get a capital L.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#54

Post by jakub_g »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

Same for me, hence years ago I started using two mice.

It took a few weeks to operate the mouse well with left hand, but now I'm fairly ok with left handed usage. Still using right hand mouse for high precision gestures and when I need left hand on keyboard (when using Tab). Unfortunately the choice for left handed mice is very low and they're expensive;I use a symmetrical Kensington trackball with the left hand.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#55

Post by jagger27 »

slightwinder wrote: post #28
roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

> Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander Kinesis has also their freestyle-line, which are physically splitted keyboard. But traditionally, the name refers to the split of the key-segments, not the whole keyboard. Until a decade ago, there barely where any real split keyboards…

This is why the new hot thing in mechanical keyboards is gasket mounting and PCB relief cuts. There is some progress happening here.

A good desk mat helps too.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#56

Post by ktm5j »

> If you’re adult-sized, it’s nearly impossible the keep the shoulders in a natural, pulled-back position while typing on a keyboard.

I have to disagree with this.. I'm 6'1 and had bad posture for most of my life. I had the same issues with pain that you describe. But recently I've put a lot of work into it having better posture and I don't have any problems anymore. You just need the right desk/chair height and sit up straight without resting your back on the backrest.

Something like this is really helpful: https://www.amazon.com/Posture-Corrector-Men-Women-Truweo/dp...

If you've never put effort into having good posture then you probably don't have the muscles that you need. Doing yoga, or any kind of core exercise, is also really helpful. I can't tell you enough how much better I feel having built up some real core strength. I used to hurt my back all the time but that never happens anymore!

Just my $.02 :)

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#57

Post by jagger27 »

flylikeabanana wrote: post #13

I find it really odd that the OP is staring down the barrel of an RSI that's going to inexorably lock them (presumably) out of their career and passion, but the learning curve for a proper ergonomic keyboard seemed to high. I was up to an acceptable 40WPM on the Ergodox a week after switching, and his complaints about " the Cherry MX" switches fall a little flat since there's about a dozen different kinds, all with d…

> a dozen different kinds

This is a vast underestimation. There are now hundreds of Cherry MX compatible clones, many of which are considered better than Cherry's original designs.

For example, I'm typing on a switch called the Gazzew Boba U4T, which is much more tactile and sharper than anything Cherry has ever made.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#58

Post by ZeroGravitas »

roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

Kenisis is in the process of launching a refreshed, split version of the Advantage. They have some teaser images on their Twitter.

But they also have more conventional split keyboards (though you can also buy a 90 degree tenting kit to make them weirder again)

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#59

Post by jamespullar »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

Something that helped me was setting my mouse to a lower DPI and using my elbow and shoulder for movement. A very high DPI encourages tiny movements with the wrist.

This is also a general recommendation for gamers looking to improve their accuracy with FPS style games. Low DPI, larger arm movements provides higher accuracy.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#60

Post by jakub_g »

NortySpock wrote: post #51
darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

Congrats on finding and resolving your carpal tunnel problem. I switched to a basic wireless trackball[1] about 5 years into my career (10 years in industry) which has kept me mostly pain free since I can avoid moving my wrist. Still might need to look for a better keyboard and a slightly better trackball, but for anyone reading this with minor pain: don't ignore it. Try new things early and try to reduce your pain,…

Been using M570 too for some time. However recently I've read that some research suggests that thumb-operated trackballs might do bad things to your thumb and that finger-operated trackballs (like Kensington Expert) are less risky. Worth keeping in mind and digging deeper. (Don't have K.E. but planning to try it out)
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