Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#341

Post by MarcoZavala » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #149

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

It's complicated. Right now Apple makes $0 from Fortnite, if they allow them back they will at least get something. Don't let emotions get in the way of business- there is still money to be made. This feels petty on Apple's part unless they are using this to send a message to anyone else who wants to sue them.

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#342

Post by apple4ever » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

kerng wrote: post #298

rdsnsca wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge did say Apple has a right to collect a commission , but did't rule if 30 % was fair. "First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collec…

yeah, reasonable commmission seems like 2-4 percent here. I don't think consumers should have to pay more for it. And most important, apps should have no restrictions whatsover to have payments inside their own app ecosystem!

Bingo. There is no reason I have to go to a website to buy a book to read on my book reader app, other than Apple being a bully.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#343

Post by yarcob » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

I've been an Apple user for more than 20 years, and I really like their products, but every year I am feeling more and more fleezed.

It pisses me off that they overcharge on storage and memory, leading to a situation where everyone who is on a budget struggles with artificially limited machines. I understand that they need to offer multiple price points to cover the market, but I actually preferred it when they just charged more for black.

It annoys me that they arbitrarily block content to enforce their weird standards (eg. no nudity allowed) or just whenever they feel someone is not paying them enough of their revenue.

It annoys me that their overarching goal is no longer to make the best products, but instead the goal is to make you keep buying accessories and services even after you already bought their stuff.

I dunno. For my home computer I already switched to Windows. There's probably lots to complain about with Microsoft as well, but I'm surprised how nice some things are after years of thinking Apple was so far ahead.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#344

Post by tharkun__ » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #336

passivate wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was a system design issue because of lack of proper cooling from the integrator (Apple). Maybe someone can look it up, I'm going off of memory here..

Apple's slavish obsession with passive cooling, indeed. It doesn't matter how many times it has been proven to be a bad idea, they're still going to use it.

I'm not sure it's such a bad idea. You can take it too far of course.

I for one love passive cooling. I select my (no Apple hardware in my house) hardware for silent operation where possible. Started with selecting the right fans and sound proofing my desktop PCs back when and now I'm only buying laptops that do well with the cooling noise. Meaning, if all I do is browsing HN, you better not turn on any fans on me. And when a fan is turned on, it has to be silent and have the right "sound profile". There's just some noise that's very very irritating and the decibels are just one aspect of it.

So if someone does everything they can to do without active cooling, I support that. Now if they can't, put the right kind of fan in there, sure. E.g. on a GPU I'm fine with some cooling noise, but it better only happen when I'm likely not to notice because I'm loudly slaying aliens or something like that.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#345

Post by gonehome » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

kerng wrote: post #298

rdsnsca wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge did say Apple has a right to collect a commission , but did't rule if 30 % was fair. "First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collec…

yeah, reasonable commmission seems like 2-4 percent here. I don't think consumers should have to pay more for it. And most important, apps should have no restrictions whatsover to have payments inside their own app ecosystem!

Yeah - I think Apple's 30% cut is a racket and a bad incentive for them. They should make money by shipping incredible products, not taxing everyone who builds for them.

That said, I like the app store rules they can enforce like IAP - I just don't think they should be taking a cut. If they want to charge a flat one time fee of like $100 to publish then fine, but profit sharing seems wrong to me.

My worry is their aggressiveness in defending their tax will cause blow back that damages their ability to leverage their rules. A worse outcome is one where they keep the tax, but app devs are allowed around the rules. This is starting to happen (an admittedly tiny bit) by them being forced to allow links out to sign up off of the phone.

If they just forced people to use IAP for their user's benefit (easy cancellation, easy account subscription tracking and privacy, easy payment), but didn't take a cut that would be the best outcome for their users and it'd be an easier argument to win in the public eye.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#346

Post by cjpearson » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

chrisfinazzo wrote: post #192

jasode wrote: post #8

It's interesting to compare the situation Epic got itself into with previous episodes of Facebook & Google breaking Apple's rules. When Facebook and Google misused Developer Enterprise certificates to go beyond internal testing and distribute apps to end-consumers , Apple revoked their accounts. Both Facebook & Google simply admitted they screwed up and Apple reinstated their accounts.[1] No lawsuits. Epic broke Appl…

Not to put too fine a point on it, but for all practical purposes Apple can't boot Facebook or Google from the App Store, regardless of what they do. Tim Cook's head would end up on the chopping block if several billion users suddently left iOS because FB, Instagram and the rest weren't available. With Google, the userbase is potentially even bigger and some of what they do really is fundamental to most people's expe…

I believe in the Facebook dispute Apple only disabled their Enterprise account because that's the one they were abusing.

Losing the Enterprise account wouldn't prevent Facebook from pushing their apps on to the store, but they would not longer be able to distribute internal apps outside the App store.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#347

Post by chrischen » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #254

dimitrios1 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

Except that it's not. The ruling clearly stated that Apple has to allow other payment providers inside the apps, but obviously anything sold on the App Store can still attract the 30% payment fee. In your example, it's like if you bought a TV from Walmart, took it home, and then any content you wanted to buy on that TV had to have a 30% fee paid to walmart since....that's where you bought it originally? It doesn't ma…

I believe Gamestop has that kind of deal where they get a cut of digital store purchases for the consoles.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#348

Post by swman » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

kerng wrote: post #298

rdsnsca wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge did say Apple has a right to collect a commission , but did't rule if 30 % was fair. "First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collec…

yeah, reasonable commmission seems like 2-4 percent here. I don't think consumers should have to pay more for it. And most important, apps should have no restrictions whatsover to have payments inside their own app ecosystem!

Or just have the flat developer fee cover it unless your app hits like 100k plus download or something.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#349

Post by dkonofalski » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #211

mrtksn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple doesn't forbid me from doing a private business exchange with Epic on my device I don't think Apple can do that. What Apple can do, is to not allow Epic to use their distribution service, known as AppStore. What you install on your iDevice is your own business and Apple cannot do anything about it. That's why jailbreaking your device is completely legal, you own your device you paid for and you can do whateve…

This seems to be overstating Apple’s position as neutral here, they are actively hostile to jailbreakers, and Apple will try to stop you any way they can.

Jailbreaking, by definition, is using exploits and vulnerabilities in the security of the device to bypass said security. Of course Apple is going to try and stop that. If they didn't, they'd be admitting that they don't care about the security of their devices which is a major factor in why people and companies buy their devices.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#350

Post by mzkply » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

kllrnohj wrote: post #246

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

> But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users Of course they are, that's Apple's standard business relationship practice. See also why Mac's still don't have an Nvidia GPU option, because Apple & Nvidia got in some spat a decade ago and Apple has been holding a grudge ever since. The more Apple brings stuff in-house the less this matters to the bottom line, but it…

I mean, for a company eagerly (and correctly) removing the headphone jack for phones, it's the least surprising thing to remove GPU options. All that's left is RAM and HDD.