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Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#251

Post by sam0x17 »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #244
kerng wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

This analogy only works if you modify it:

There are only two chains of brick and mortar store in the world and one with double digit market share (Apple) has decided to take 30% off the top for all goods sold in all of their stores and have banned products from having any indication on their packaging that they can be purchased elsewhere for different pricing. Entering any store also requires an extremely expensive chain-specific device that most people purchase on credit every few years, eliminating the ability to easily shop around at both chains.

If this were to happen outside of tech, the perpetrator would get crushed by anti-monopoly legislation.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#252

Post by root_axis »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #244
kerng wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

To make the analogy accurate it would need to be stipulated that this brick and mortar store is the only place that customers can go to buy products.

edit: I wouldn't even say "two chains" like a sibling comment suggests because the reality is that customers have to invest hundreds of dollars on an exclusive membership to one or the other, picking and choosing from both is not an option.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#253

Post by kllrnohj »

ryanlol wrote: post #150
Jensson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lawsuit will cost Apple way more than Epic. It might not hurt Apple that much as a percentage, but in absolute terms it will hurt them plenty. There is a reason they fight this so fervently.

Why? Apple hasn’t lost their 30%, and there’s no indication that they will.

Apple lost their exclusivity on in-app-payments:

> Rogers issued an injunction that said Apple will no longer be allowed to prohibit developers from providing links or other communications that direct users away from Apple in-app purchasing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/epic-games-v-apple-judge-rea...

So Apple didn't "lose" their 30% exactly, but everyone is now free to do what Fortnite originally did and that's link to their own site for users to buy in-app currency instead. It's likely all but certain that every game with IAP will be deploying this over the next few months.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#254

Post by gambiting »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #244
kerng wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

Except that it's not. The ruling clearly stated that Apple has to allow other payment providers inside the apps, but obviously anything sold on the App Store can still attract the 30% payment fee.

In your example, it's like if you bought a TV from Walmart, took it home, and then any content you wanted to buy on that TV had to have a 30% fee paid to walmart since....that's where you bought it originally? It doesn't make sense there, and it doesn't make sense here. When epic sells you a fortnite skin within fortnite, apple provides literally no value to this transaction, other than being a gatekeeper between two legitimate sides wishing to engage in a business transaction - so that's why Epic wanted to make sure they can process their own payments within the app(and the court has agreed).

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#255

Post by xyzzy21 »

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

It may also be illegal both from an anti-trust legal view and from a contract legal view. IANAL but I hire them frequently for advice.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#256

Post by [deleted] »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #244
kerng wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is the customer here also and they want to be able to provide a convenient and cheaper way for their customers. Their asks are not only reasonable, they are consumer friendly. Apple is just being a bully.

Imagine you want to sell a valuable, consumer friendly product that is cheaper than some alternatives and will save people money, but in this case, in a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar store says "we agree to stock your product, and will take 30% off the top for our troubles." Would we be saying the same things? It's the same dynamic, in my view.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#257

Post by Mikeb85 »

And this is why I refuse to give Apple any money whatsoever (also Microsoft for past shenanigans). User freedom matters. At least on Android, you can sideload apps (very easily too these days) if Google (or Samsung or Huawei or whichever app store you have) decides to ban an app. And Linux of course is completely free.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#258

Post by kllrnohj »

judge2020 wrote: post #221
maxsilver wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has. You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department o…

Your post would hold up if the court didn’t already decide that Apple is not, in fact, a monopoly. The market in the lawsuit was defined as “digital mobile game transactions” https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/09/10/epic-v-apple.pdf

The court made that decision under the existing legal framework. That does not mean, nor even imply, that the existing legal framework is fair & just nor that it has kept up with modern structures.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#259

Post by sendtown_expwy »

mattcantstop wrote: post #193

I understand Apple's decision to do this. They want to stick it to Epic. Completely understandable desire on Apple's part. But, sadly, Apple is letting their desire to get vengeance outweigh the interests of their users in having all the games they want to play on their devices. I have been realizing lately that my loyalty to Apple has been waning over the years after having invested heavily in the ecosystem. This is…

"Fortnite will be blacklisted from the Apple ecosystem until the exhaustion of all court appeals"

It's not about sticking it to them. It's to increase the cost of their appeals and pressure them to drop the case.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#260

Post by throwaway473825 »

doikor wrote: post #88
bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the appstore wasn't a very significant part of their income. So why did they even pick the fight?

To make more money. More is more even if it is not making their most important thing make more money. Just like Apple has not killed most of their desktop offering just because they are not a very significant part of their income. Also a big chunk of it is probably just Tim Sweeneys personal opinions (he owns over 50% epic by himself so what he says happens pretty much). Basically he is rather strongly (and very open…

> Basically he is rather strongly (and very openly) against any walled garden platforms.

Is that why he doesn't support the only real open platform on the desktop?

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