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2006: Dwarf Fortress

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Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#21

Post by pimterry »

indigochill wrote: post #15
roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Although I'm usually a bazaar man when it comes to talking about the Cathedral and Bazaar, in theory there can be some awesome cathedrals, too. A digital equivalent to La Sagrada Familia, if you will. On the other hand, digital cathedrals are theoretically vulnerable to operating systems changes in a way physical cathedrals don't have to wrestle with as much (I guess maybe changing building code could be the closest…

> A digital equivalent to La Sagrada Familia, if you will.

> On the other hand, digital cathedrals are theoretically vulnerable to operating systems changes in a way physical cathedrals don't have to wrestle with as much (I guess maybe changing building code could be the closest analog?)

Sagrada Familia actually does have analogous problems.

When they started ~130 years ago, there was little in the way of planning regulation. In 2019 they had to go back and file for formal planning permits & licenses, and pay 4.6 million in taxes and fees to do so so that they could continue construction, more than a century after starting: https://www.barcelona.cat/infobarcelona/en/tema/urban-planni...

They also have an ongoing battle because during that 130 years of construction, somebody went and built a city block in the place where the original designs put the front door: https://elpais.com/espana/catalunya/2020-03-05/barcelona-qui... [Spanish]

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#22

Post by jtms »

29athrowaway wrote: post #11

There are a few games inspired in Dwarf Fortress, such as Gnomeria and Rimworld, for audiences that are a more casual. Dwarf Fortress is hard to master.

Rimworld is an absolute masterpiece. As a long time DF player I highly, highly recommend Rimworld!

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#23

Post by sprkwd »

Tepix wrote: post #16

What's the situation regarding Dwarf fortress and Macs with the Apple M1 silicon? Last time i checked it didn't work (crashed during world generation) after Apple released macOS 11.1. I sure would like to give it a try!

yup it works.

Here's a post: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158322.msg701...

Direct link: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12202

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#24

Post by imdsm »

sshagent wrote: post #10
roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Nicely put. DF is simply the best game I've ever played, and I've been hooked by many from many genres. The stories told within are insane. I only play it every couple of years when the desire catches me, yet still patreon to DF. This is what games should be. Obviously an insane barrier of entry, took me a few goes to 'get it' and even now i barely get it despite playing many varingly 'fun' forts. I watched many yout…

I've played since 2006 and while I don't find much time these days, I return to it every few years to scratch an itch. I played a lot of ADOM in the old days, and naturally jumped onto DF when it appeared. With tilesets, things became easier, and then with Dwarf Therapist, easier too. Then we got packs like the "Lazy Newb" pack, and with Steam coming too, it'll become even more accessible to folks.

The depth of what can be achieved is what amazes me as an engineer. I can build cisterns to hold water, underground reservoirs, a series of mechanisms to refill the water, and to move it to consumption points, through the use of labelled levers, but be sure to smooth the stone, lest you get dusty water. Have some drain away to create mist in a common area, everyone loves mist. And another floodgate to create a defensive section, should invaders breach the entrance.

This is but one such area that can be brought about through the mechanics of the game, not to mention swimming practise in 1/2 depth water (7 is fully deep) and more.

A truly wonderful game, and I'm honoured to have a crayon drawing from them, to have been like yourself a part of its history. Strike the earth!

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#25

Post by GLGirty »

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Do you think software is a medium that can create one-person (or small team) masterworks in any form but games? Candidates that come to my mind are lisp, unix, and visicalc. I wonder if the nature of software means that craft code is destined to fossilize.

> If humanity survives to 2121, there are going to be some amazing games.

My great grandkids can enjoy that if they survive antibiotic resistant microbes and the water wars.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#27

Post by ajuc »

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

> If humanity survives to 2121, there are going to be some amazing games

Check out nethack if you want to see what a few decades of development can do to a simple game.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#28

Post by Octopodes »

triggercut wrote: post #18
kibwen wrote: post #12

> The heights to which that complexity has now reached are evidenced by two famous bugs: one involved too low a melting point for the fat layer of dwarven skin, and the other saw cats getting wildly drunk from licking their paws after walking over tavern floors sticky with spilled beer. These are the ones that always get mentioned, but over the game's whole history there are too many great bugs to name. One infamous…

Thankyou! So many playthroughs full of messages about fighting carp suddenly all make sense!

That was fixed ages ago, but still exists as a running inside joke.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#29

Post by intended »

sshagent wrote: post #10
roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Nicely put. DF is simply the best game I've ever played, and I've been hooked by many from many genres. The stories told within are insane. I only play it every couple of years when the desire catches me, yet still patreon to DF. This is what games should be. Obviously an insane barrier of entry, took me a few goes to 'get it' and even now i barely get it despite playing many varingly 'fun' forts. I watched many yout…

I kinda liked the earlier version of the game, before guides and tools made it easier to get into.

This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun.

Before that I would always play in a manner that guaranteed success, re-loading if something went wrong.

With DF it was either something going spectacularly wrong, or utter boredom when I decided to play safe.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#30

Post by Cthulhu_ »

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

> If humanity survives to 2121, there are going to be some amazing games. Gamemakers like Tarn, possible multiple generations of gamemakers, polishing these things will have some remarkable outcomes. I am glad to be around now at the birth of computing, but it is all too easy to envy the people who will be young in the 22nd century.

I too share your optimism, and I feel fortunate to be alive in this period (and who knows, maybe in 2121), however at the same time I feel like Dwarf Fortress is unique in its complexity; I feel like its complexity and attention to detail requires a mind unlike anyone else's, like the singular geniuses of the scientific communities that came out with breakthrough discoveries and incredibly complicated maths.

I find it hard to imagine DF but even deeper. But that might be my lack of imagination. I for one am happy to wait and see and be proven wrong.

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