EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#331

Post by maeln » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #146

maeln wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones? I can think of 3 reasons: 1. A lightning port is slightly smaller than USB-c, so it enable Apple to keep their phone slimmer than the competition in theory. 2. Apple loves to be in control of everything. With lightning, they could make a switch to a "lightning 2.O" cable / port whenever they so pleased. With USB-C they would be restricte…

> With USB-C they would be restricted by the USB-IF. Apple will still find a way to do what they want, especially given they play a non-trivial role in the USB-IF and provided significant resources towards developing USB-C in the first place. I would like USB-C on my iPhone, but I think the biggest reason why Apple hasn't done it is just because of momentum, and that it _is_ a switch from the current situation.

I mean, technically, they can keep using the same connector (usb-c) but make extensive change to the underlying protocol making it required to buy an "Apple cable" for anything else than charging and maybe still respecting the U.E law.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#332

Post by toyg » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #299

p4l4g4 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just charged my phone with my laptops Usb-C charger, without any issue. Apart from special features like fast-charge, I'd say compatibility is very good.

I used to work at a company whose products included USB-C ports that only supported cable insertion in a single orientation--if the cable was inserted incorrectly, it would fry the board. Manufacturers have a lot of freedom to cut corners with this standard in all different places, and you better believe that they are going to do that to the greatest possible extent.

Warranty laws in the EU (2 years mandatory) make this less of a problem - eventually a manufacturer must realize they'll make more money doing things right than replacing tons of fried returns.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#333

Post by josefx » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #287

Does anyone feel it is a little strange to have a government entity mandating a physical interconnect? I guess it has worked out well enough for receptacles. But on a phone it acts as a data connection as well. I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything.

The problem is that after years of everyone pulling their own shit we finally have USB C. Yet it seems as if a dozen companies still do their best to remain incompatible in various ways.

No one wants USB C as permanent solution but the alternative hasn't worked out.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#334

Post by zepolen » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #294

It makes me uneasy to have governments mandate technical implementations like this. Would USB-C ever have been invented if all companies were required to use USB micro-B for everything? Maybe I'm jaded by my American government, but I have zero faith in the ability of a group of politicians to stay up to date with technical standards and keep legislation like this up to date.

Micro USB became ubiquitous because Europe put forth a commission in 2009 to make it so. Before that every phone had their own weird charger. It was hell. Life got much better after 2009.

Guess who didn't participate? Apple. Because they weren't forced to. This time, they are, and life will get much better.

On American government, yea, it's hard to trust something that is bought and paid for by corporate America, Europe however has some balls in that department.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#335

Post by arghwhat » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #312

GordonS wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't. Here the EU is creating legislation that forces manufacturers to increase interoperability, be more consumer-friendly, and more climate friendly. This all seems within the remit of governments to me. > I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location? No one is using it anymore, but it is still mandatory on everything. Or course not, it's not like…

I don't know enough about the EU to say if the laws will adapt. But in the US, I very much view it as once something is legislated it becomes a permanent fixture of our society.

It might mean that it won't change as often as through a free market, but laws adapt.

On the other hand, things also become permanent fixtures without law. Like USB-A connectors having been stuck on laptops and desktops for more than 20 years.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#336

Post by Wolfenstein98k » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

"The proposals only cover devices using wired, not wireless, chargers, EU commissioner Thierry Breton said in a press conference, adding that “there is plenty of room for innovation on wireless.”"

This quote typifies why Europe is miles behind on tech and innovation more generally.

"I can't imagine a better way of doing this, so we should mandate that everyone does this way."

We would've never even got wireless charging with this logic back in the USB-A days.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#337

Post by tazjin » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

> I guess I just wonder if in 20 years will every device still have a USB-C port on it in some odd location?

Yet another indicator that all regulation like this should come with a time limit. For another popular example, see the whole South Korea Internet Explorer fiasco.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#338

Post by lrem » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #327

toyg wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already a change from previous legislation that effectively mandated micro-USB. So yeah, it can be done.

Does it count if no one ever complied to this legislation? Where are the micro-usb iPhones?

Apple complied by adding a free dongle to every iPhone sold in the EU.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#339

Post by toyg » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #327

toyg wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already a change from previous legislation that effectively mandated micro-USB. So yeah, it can be done.

Does it count if no one ever complied to this legislation? Where are the micro-usb iPhones?

Apple "complied" by putting USB-A on their chargers and calling it a day. EU authorities grumbled but didn't opt for a lenghty legal challenge; instead, they talked a bit more and came up with this updated legislation. Note how they give Apple something (the unbundled charger) while becoming more restrictive in other areas... if Apple continue taking the piss after this gets passed, I expect the hammer will come down.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#340

Post by maeln » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #162

maeln wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones? I can think of 3 reasons: 1. A lightning port is slightly smaller than USB-c, so it enable Apple to keep their phone slimmer than the competition in theory. 2. Apple loves to be in control of everything. With lightning, they could make a switch to a "lightning 2.O" cable / port whenever they so pleased. With USB-C they would be restricte…

You also don't have the issue of an errant foot or chair wheel squishing the connector flat and ruining it.

You mean with a lightning connector or a usb-c one ? In my experience, lightning connector were much more easy to break than usb-c one, since there is no actual protection/shielding to the actual pads/connector. It is so easy to snap the connector part of a lightning port.