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Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

phoronix.com

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Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#51

Post by marcodiego »

c0l0 wrote: post #6

I am afraid it does not matter any more, at least not for practical software freedom. Most Android devices these days have bootloaders that cannot be unlocked, preventing device owners from installing custom kernel images onto their devices. And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. It's…

> I am afraid it does not matter any more, at least not for practical software freedom.

These new policies allow more "cross pollination" between mainline linux and the fork used by android. Waydroid running smoothly on an unmodified kernel is a result of this.

Waydroid is important "for practical software freedom" because it allows pinephone and librem-5 to run android apps.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#52

Post by seniorivn »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #44
ghuin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Premium features, premium price point.

So privacy is a premium feature now, that should only be available to developed societies? Okay.

that's not how it should be, that's how it is. The only way cheaper devices are so cheap is by cutting all the corners they can, and turns out one of the corners people don't care to be cut is their privacy and security

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#53

Post by codedokode »

c0l0 wrote: post #6

I am afraid it does not matter any more, at least not for practical software freedom. Most Android devices these days have bootloaders that cannot be unlocked, preventing device owners from installing custom kernel images onto their devices. And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. It's…

> Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app

I don't think that installing your bank's app is a good idea. First, banks are interested in collecting as much data about their customers as possible so the app will be used as a spyware. Second, installing an app eliminates second factor for authorization - now if your phone gets hacked, the criminals will be able to steal all your savings.

It is better to use only bank's website from desktop computer and use a phone only as a second factor to confirm transactions.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#54

Post by seniorivn »

Semaphor wrote: post #26
c0l0 wrote: post #6

I am afraid it does not matter any more, at least not for practical software freedom. Most Android devices these days have bootloaders that cannot be unlocked, preventing device owners from installing custom kernel images onto their devices. And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. It's…

Most I see are unlockable, but then I’d check first anyway. > And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. There is still MagiskHide, though it often requires a bunch of trial and error to get it working. In addition, there are still banks with apps that allow you to install them on rooted d…

as far is i know, the main(almost only) magisk developer got hired by google this summer, so it's likely there won't be magiskhide anymore

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#55

Post by mixedCase »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #32
izacus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Android devices these days have bootloaders that cannot be unlocked, preventing device owners from installing custom kernel images onto their devices. And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. Googles own devices not only allow you to unlock the bootloader, but to relock it with yo…

>vote with your wallet and don't complain how "most devices" don't give you feature you're not ready to pay for This isn't always possible or realistic. The cheapest Pixel phone is worth 2+ median monthly salaries in my location.

Xiaomi phones are the gold standard of price/performance where I live and their bootloader can be unlocked.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#56

Post by seniorivn »

techrat wrote: post #34
pjmlp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some Gerrit commits will help, https://android-review.googlesource.com/q/fuchsia Also in case you missed, Android apps now run on ChromeOS.

Code gets shared between projects all the time. Nothing in there specifically says that Fuchsia will replace Android. In case you had problems comprehending it the first time, ChromeOS and Android were not * merged.* The rumor has been around since 2015. https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/29/9639950/google-combining... Running ones' apps on another OS is not merging the two. The ChromeOS/Android merger claims are still…

that's how rumors work, what rumormongers considered merging of the two OSes, were in fact attempts to make chrome os able to run Android apps, and that's exactly what happend.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#57

Post by NikolaeVarius »

SXX wrote: post #27
izacus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Android devices these days have bootloaders that cannot be unlocked, preventing device owners from installing custom kernel images onto their devices. And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. Googles own devices not only allow you to unlock the bootloader, but to relock it with yo…

> Googles own devices not only allow you to unlock the bootloader, but to relock it with your own signing keys. And does it let you pass SafetyNet and run most of the apps. AFAIK it's not so re-lockable bootloader is useless.

I have a unlocked booloader and I bypass SafeyNet just fine.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#58

Post by Semaphor »

seniorivn wrote: post #54
Semaphor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most I see are unlockable, but then I’d check first anyway. > And even if you have a phone where that isn't true, Google's SafetyNet will prevent you from using many crucial applications, like your bank's Android app, on that handset. There is still MagiskHide, though it often requires a bunch of trial and error to get it working. In addition, there are still banks with apps that allow you to install them on rooted d…

as far is i know, the main(almost only) magisk developer got hired by google this summer, so it's likely there won't be magiskhide anymore

Thanks for the info. Looks like it will indeed be dropped, [0] has some more details. I stopped using it because the whole cat-and-mouse game that is mentioned was too annoying for me as well, probably a lot worse for the dev.

[0] https://www.xda-developers.com/magisk-development-continues-...

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#59

Post by jhasse »

omnicognate wrote: post #28
vadfa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that nobody seems to be able to spell the word "fuchsia"?

Because it's an unusual spelling. It's a latinisation of the German surname Fuchs (after the botanist Leonhart Fuchs) and is neither pronounced consistently with the surname (Fooks) nor spelled consistently with other words containing the same "sh" phoneme rendered as "sch". People will never reliably spell it right, so you have to wonder whether it's a great choice of name for an OS.

It isn't only a German surname but the German word for fox.

Re: Google shifting to “upstream first” Linux kernel approach for Android features

#60

Post by kibwen »

mixedCase wrote: post #55
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>vote with your wallet and don't complain how "most devices" don't give you feature you're not ready to pay for This isn't always possible or realistic. The cheapest Pixel phone is worth 2+ median monthly salaries in my location.

Xiaomi phones are the gold standard of price/performance where I live and their bootloader can be unlocked.

Obligatory reminder of the state surveillance and censorship baked into Xiaomi products: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28616683
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