Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#141

Post by floatingatoll » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

moonchrome wrote: post #136

What happened to that proposed US regulation that they will mandate alternate app stores on iPhone and make Google style strong-arming against other stores illegal. This sounds like the best solution by far. Nothing changes for Apple walled garden users and happy Google Play users. The rest of us get better choices.

How would this change the fact that Epic knowingly and intentionally violated a contract? The judge didn’t prohibit Apple from enforcement responses to the willful rule breaking by Epic. Apple said they’d reinstate Epic if Epic uploads a guidelines-compliant build. Epic instead said they’d upload a build that doesn’t comply with today’s guidelines. Apple declined Epic’s offer as it does not met the terms they presented, and withdrew the offer of early reinstatement.

If Epic hadn’t decided to posture and had just uploaded a build that complies with today’s guidelines - which do not, and are not yet required to, allow external purchasing links - then they would have had their account reinstated. They chose not to do so, in a flashy and demanding way, having no leverage left against Apple. Bad choice.

ps. This entire post is a dupe, rehashing the same discussions from yesterday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28618332

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#142

Post by stevehawk » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #108

MikeDelta wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the future of their business model is at stake. If Epic succeeds and many more try to circumvent paying 30% to Apple, then they will feel it.

Apple's business model does not depend on the App Store's 30% cut. Not by a long shot.

Apple's 30% cut is a cash printing press for them. Sure they have other business models like completely disposable, non-repairable, non-recyclable electronics, but the iTunes and App stores are significant profit centers.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#143

Post by sigzero » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

"Tim Sweeney is high as a kite." is my favorite line out that whole thing.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#144

Post by nixpulvis » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

Epic took a stand and we should be behind them 100%. This case was never about winning on the letter of the contract law, it was about moving the standard of practice and attempting to gain some ground against the evils of mega-Apple. If you are reading this Grubber post and thinking you agree, that's only because you are used to thinking this way by now.

The courts simply do not understand the power companies like Apple and Google have apparently. The startup cost of a competitor would be astronomical, as we've seen reflected in the quality, cost, and size of the small handful of other smartphone companies recently. Even if we seem new players become competitive, then what's to stop us from being back in this same situation in 10 years? 5 years? This is why we have Laws.

Not even to mention that the telecom companies are still working against progress and taking absurd cuts for themselves.

Hosting, platforming, and The Web are in crisis, as we're all aware. We should be firmly on the side of open access to our (developers) content. Why let the platforms eat our lunch? Maybe we should just be giving them a snack, or a little treat, but even that would just be for "services rendered", not as a condition for our meal.

I'm just so fucking done with this, sorry I can't help but be a bit angry.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#145

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

syspec wrote: post #132

Lest people think Apple must allow alternative IAP, or bypassing their commission. From the court ruling: > At step three, Epic Games has identified no suitable less restrictive alternative for Apple’s use of IAP based on the current record. The only alternative that Epic Games proposes is that Apple be barred from restricting or deterring in any way “the use of in-app payment processors other than IAP.” This propose…

Epic totally picked the wrong way to approach this...

They should have taken up the issue with the EU competition commission and asked them to issue big fines to Apple per day they don't allow competing app stores.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#146

Post by smiley1437 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #120

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that? me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes.

> Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that?

> me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes.

Even if it risks your future earnings of literally hundreds of billions of dollars?

Apple made about 100 million (0.1 billion) from Fortnite. A lot of money, to be sure.

https://fortune.com/2021/05/19/apple-fortnite-epic-games-100...

But 2020 App store gross revenue was 72 billion, 30% of that is 21 billion and it's growing rapidly.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-...

Making another 0.1 billion to risk losing hundreds of billions in the future seems like a poor strategy.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#147

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #118

p2t2p wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My life under Tim Cook's "vision" is pretty sweet when it comes to electronic devices. With a tap of a button I fill my house with lossless quality of music that is playing on astonishingly capable speakers. Those speakers also answer my questions and run automations on my phone which I can create in a very nice and user-friendly interface. I'm currently watching an episode of a TV Series that is playing from my NAS…

And yet, you're only allowed to install what they authorize. It's a nice cell.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#148

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #47

Jensson wrote: post #2

> Epic will resubmit Fortnite to the App Store if you adhere to the plain language of the court order and allow apps to include buttons and external links that direct customers to other purchasing mechanisms without onerous terms or impediments to a good user experience. That seems very reasonable, why wouldn't Apple be forced to comply with the court order?

> why wouldn't Apple be forced to comply with the court order? They seem to be waiting until all appeals have finished: "Apple will not consider any further requests for reinstatement until the district court's judgement becomes final and nonappealable." https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/144071177248318669...

Effectively telling Epic that if they are serious about this issue, they need to batten down for a multi-year court battle and give up selling games in the meantime.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#149

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #104

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iO…

It's complicated. Right now Apple makes $0 from Fortnite, if they allow them back they will at least get something. Don't let emotions get in the way of business- there is still money to be made. This feels petty on Apple's part unless they are using this to send a message to anyone else who wants to sue them.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#150

Post by ryanlol » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #38

dubcanada wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the most wealthy company in the world in trouble? Epic made 5 billion last year most from a game that can easily be replaced and will eventually (they all eventually get replaced), Apple has 200 billion in cash just sitting there and makes 60 billion a year on average. They are not even close.

This lawsuit will cost Apple way more than Epic. It might not hurt Apple that much as a percentage, but in absolute terms it will hurt them plenty. There is a reason they fight this so fervently.

Why? Apple hasn’t lost their 30%, and there’s no indication that they will.