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EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

xda-developers.com

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Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#211

Post by axiosgunnar »

Ginden wrote: post #200
dexen wrote: post #188

Bad move, an unforced error. This will stifle innovation needlessly, similarly to how US' (previously) mandated single model of sealed beam headlights stifled their automobile headlights innovation for several decades. Seems some bureaucrat has dusted off the bad old "Everything that can be invented has been invented." quote. The only possible upside would be manufacturers standardizing on wireless charging in all de…

> This will stifle innovation needlessly Do we have any room left for innovation in charging ports? USB-C provides 24 pins, up to 240W Power Delivery (negotiable), up to 40 Gbit/s, ability to negotiate alternate modes (so manufacturer can implement new proprietary protocol if they want/need to and put basically anything over those 24 pins).

"640K of memory ought to be enough for anybody“ :-)

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#212

Post by nottorp »

dexen wrote: post #206
Ginden wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will stifle innovation needlessly Do we have any room left for innovation in charging ports? USB-C provides 24 pins, up to 240W Power Delivery (negotiable), up to 40 Gbit/s, ability to negotiate alternate modes (so manufacturer can implement new proprietary protocol if they want/need to and put basically anything over those 24 pins).

>Do we have any room left for innovation in charging ports? Absolutely! The sheer amount of optional features in USB-C cables makes charging - in particular fast charging, and charging tablet/laptop sized devices - a hit-or-miss game. USB-C's design was made to balance of costs with regards to client device complexity: 12 pins in total, three twisted pair signalling pathways, of which two are optional. All this is be…

> USB-C's design was made to balance of costs with regards to client device complexity

Actually usb has and always has been made to confuse users about what cables they should buy.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#213

Post by qayxc »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #122
oaiey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they targeted plastic bags already. The food industry will get their blast, but their problem is harder to solve than chargers.

Is this something yet to come into law? I find it very hard to buy the vegetables I want at German supermarkets because they so often come wrapped in plastic sets of three. Even bananas have a substantial amount of sticky tape around them.

Is it always plastic, though? Might be cellophane instead, which is not plastic and especially suited for packaging food.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#214

Post by southerntofu »

Aerroon wrote: post #164

Have they figured out how a mere mortal can tell what a USB cable can do without plugging it in? Because USB might be one of the most confusing standards there is. And I don't believe for a second that making all USB-C cables capable of everything in the standard isn't massively wasteful itself. If the intent is to cut down on waste then that would miss the mark.

I'm also curious about this. 99% of Ethernet cables i've come across had "CAT5e" (or another cat) spelled out on the cable's coat, and that proved useful. With USB, on the other hand...

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#215

Post by nottorp »

mclightning wrote: post #203
Aerroon wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why the standard that USB-C cables use is such a ridiculous mess? > Even the seemingly most basic function of USB-C — powering devices — continues to be a mess of compatibility issues, conflicting proprietary standards, and a general lack of consumer information to guide purchasing decisions. https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/

Worst examples of USB-C in that list is better than USB2.0... USB-C is not lacking. You simply get what you paid for. I am using USB-C to charge my laptop, phone, earbuds. It's been amazing having just 1 single cable dangling on my desk, instead of several. This alone has been enough positive to justify the move over to USB-C.

How much time did you spend on researching what USB-C cable you should buy? :)

Also, does it have data? At 2.0 speeds? At 3.1 speeds?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#216

Post by nottorp »

squiggleblaz wrote: post #128
enlyth wrote: post #45

Maybe unpopular opinion but I like lightning more than USB-C, it makes more sense to me to have the connective parts of the cable on the outside of it, which gets rid of that little "notch" on the inside of USB-C ports which just seems like it can get bent at any time.

I dunno, I seem to go through Lightning charging cables like water, whereas I've never replaced a USB-C charging cable. That may have less to do with the intrinsic properties of the design so much as Apple's unwillingness to build stable cables, but usually I have two or three cables (at home, at the office) which are usually whatever's cheapest, so it seems like it must be intrinsic to the market's ability to produc…

Is it because you move your phone while it's charging a lot more than you move your laptop?

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#217

Post by dexen »

xorcist wrote: post #93
sph wrote: post #4

Good, though in practice it's not the charger the problem, I use the same USB plug everywhere, it's Apple and their cable. Right now I always need with me a micro USB cable, an USB-C one, and Lightning, because Apple thinks different™. What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones?

> I use the same USB plug everywhere, That's because of EU regulation. All the big manufacturers had their own connector before that, micro-USB started to look like a common connector among the low end manufacturers. This is the next step for that regulation and has been in the cards for some time.

>>I use the same USB plug everywhere,

>That's because of EU regulation.

Patently untrue: the Micro USB has won over proprietary connectors before the EU regulation, thanks to being cheaper than ever-changing charging & data cables that used to be the norm. That in turn was possible through large volume, and also through well designed standard; it was the third iteration of the plug - after original full sized A/B, and after the somewhat underwhelming Mini USB.

In particular the Micro USB was specced for quite good reliability - including 10,000 plug-unplug cycles, which is quite high for consumer grade hardware, and that was made possible thanks to the sheer experience amassed over years by the USB consortium. Not by regulator's fiat.

That currently USB-C is ruling the market is again thanks to USB consortium's active push, together with large volume of all sorts of devices using it.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#218

Post by southerntofu »

srg0 wrote: post #98
connor-brooks wrote: post #34

An average consumer probably gets a new phone every 1-2 years. That means 50-100g of junk plastic every year per person. This seems very small compared to the amount of non-recyclable plastic I get every time I go to the supermarket (Fruit and veg in plastic wrapping). Are USB cables very resource heavy to make? Is there something that makes them especially bad when compared to other waste?

The valuable part of the charger and the cable is not actually plastic. The point is that replaced chargers account for ~ 1_000_000 kg of e-waste per year. Cable is 30% copper, 24% stainless steel, 16% other non-plastic materials. EPS is 13% copper and copper alloys, 7% aluminium, 6% steel, 37% other non-plastic components. According to EU studies, 31% of the EPS and cables are incorrectly disposed. https://op.europa…

Entirely agree with your point. However, i would point out that there's many other sources of waste that can be easily avoided:

- food waste and related food wrapping waste

- planned obsolescence (TVs, cars, washing machines, and just about every product out there)

- car-oriented architecture in the cities, where public transportation is an afterthought

- energy waste due to personal infrastructure/tooling (cooking/washing/heating infra, personal TV vs shared screening rooms, etc)

- war and social control: what's the environmental cost (transportation, manufacture of mechanical/chemical weapons) of repression (of, say an environmental protest like the anti-COP21 movement)? what about an outright war on a foreign nation?

These are just examples, but environmental concerns are rather "easy" to tackle given proper political will. The problem is people concerned with the coming ecological apocalypse are either ignored, silenced, bullied, mutilated or murdered by Nation States and multinationals.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#219

Post by mclightning »

nottorp wrote: post #215
mclightning wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst examples of USB-C in that list is better than USB2.0... USB-C is not lacking. You simply get what you paid for. I am using USB-C to charge my laptop, phone, earbuds. It's been amazing having just 1 single cable dangling on my desk, instead of several. This alone has been enough positive to justify the move over to USB-C.

How much time did you spend on researching what USB-C cable you should buy? :) Also, does it have data? At 2.0 speeds? At 3.1 speeds?

I know what I should expect if I am paying a cable $5 vs $40.

Just because tip of the cable is looking like USB-C, you shouldn't expect it to support HDMI etc.

Most people are not looking for full set of USB-C features. Most people are just looking to charge their device.

I don't remember last time I wired up my phone to my computer for any data transfer, and I am a nerd who reads HN. Think about the average folk.

If we go further, a big chunk of people, don't even use anything like a file manager.

In short, biggest reason we have cables around these days is; To Charge Up. That's it.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#220

Post by amelius »

londons_explore wrote: post #165
harvie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.5mm headphone jack with hole drilled in midle carrying optical fiber would handle all use cases i can imagine. From delivering power, charging phones to connecting several 8K monitors. multiple protocols can use separate wavelengths of light, all at once in single fiber. Hundreds of gigabits are possible, maybe more, depending on the length. While still being able to connect wired headphones.

I'd support this. The sockets would need some work for decent power transfer - it needs to do at least the 150 watts that USB-C can do, and preferably 150 kwatts for charging a car. For 150 watts while maintaining backwards compatibility, all that's needed is larger contact area (curved spring clips) to support 3 amps and the use of 48 volts after negotiation. For 150 kilowatts we'd be talking some cutting edge stuff…

Charging a car over a 3.5mm headphone jack, that would certainly be worthy of a HN post ...
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