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Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

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Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#11

Post by mschuster91 »

isodev wrote: post #5
hughrr wrote: post #3

No winners either side. And of course no winning for their customers either. I increasingly want nothing to do with battling corporate giants.

Indeed. It was quite clear from the beginning this is more about Epic's bottom line than the interest of users or developers.

So what? Assuming that the battle does lead to an enforced (either via court or legislation) opening of the App Store or to massively reduced pricing for developers, the net outcome for users and developers is still positive.

One might even argue that it did need Epic as one of the largest mobile software vendors to challenge Apple both in PR and the courts. Small developers have complained without any effect whatsoever for years about the App Store restrictions (especially adult/otherwise "not family friendly" content, or wishing to use an HTML renderer that is not full of bugs) or Apple booting out their existence with no reason or way of appealing.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#12

Post by Aerroon »

isodev wrote: post #5
hughrr wrote: post #3

No winners either side. And of course no winning for their customers either. I increasingly want nothing to do with battling corporate giants.

Indeed. It was quite clear from the beginning this is more about Epic's bottom line than the interest of users or developers.

And how are those two not related? Epic is a developer, therefore their bottom line is literally in the interest of developers. Furthermore, if a company has less fees to deal with then they can charge lower prices for the same product.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#13

Post by Aerroon »

jasode wrote: post #8

It's interesting to compare the situation Epic got itself into with previous episodes of Facebook & Google breaking Apple's rules. When Facebook and Google misused Developer Enterprise certificates to go beyond internal testing and distribute apps to end-consumers , Apple revoked their accounts. Both Facebook & Google simply admitted they screwed up and Apple reinstated their accounts.[1] No lawsuits. Epic broke Appl…

I don't think that quote is quite as apt though. Epic seems to be in far less trouble than Apple. Epic might not have gained what they wanted, but a lot of it is a giant like of evidence about Apple for other countries and cases.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#15

Post by YPPH »

threatofrain wrote: post #4
Jensson wrote: post #2

> Epic will resubmit Fortnite to the App Store if you adhere to the plain language of the court order and allow apps to include buttons and external links that direct customers to other purchasing mechanisms without onerous terms or impediments to a good user experience. That seems very reasonable, why wouldn't Apple be forced to comply with the court order?

Apple is complying with court rulings, including the judgment that Apple's contract with Epic is valid and enforceable. Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever, but only the Fortnite account is banned. This appears to be a win for... payment vendors. At this point Epic can only hope for legislative action. Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise…

>Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever

Is this mere conjecture or is it founded on what was said in the court's opinion?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#16

Post by Jensson »

threatofrain wrote: post #4
Jensson wrote: post #2

> Epic will resubmit Fortnite to the App Store if you adhere to the plain language of the court order and allow apps to include buttons and external links that direct customers to other purchasing mechanisms without onerous terms or impediments to a good user experience. That seems very reasonable, why wouldn't Apple be forced to comply with the court order?

Apple is complying with court rulings, including the judgment that Apple's contract with Epic is valid and enforceable. Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever, but only the Fortnite account is banned. This appears to be a win for... payment vendors. At this point Epic can only hope for legislative action. Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise…

But wasn't Epic banned just because they broke that rule the court now ordered Apple not to enforce? Isn't it strange that this lawsuit would result in Apple now being able to enforce that rule only for Epic and they aren't allowed to enforce it for anyone else? Is that how it is supposed to work?

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#17

Post by Jensson »

threatofrain wrote: post #4
Jensson wrote: post #2

> Epic will resubmit Fortnite to the App Store if you adhere to the plain language of the court order and allow apps to include buttons and external links that direct customers to other purchasing mechanisms without onerous terms or impediments to a good user experience. That seems very reasonable, why wouldn't Apple be forced to comply with the court order?

Apple is complying with court rulings, including the judgment that Apple's contract with Epic is valid and enforceable. Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever, but only the Fortnite account is banned. This appears to be a win for... payment vendors. At this point Epic can only hope for legislative action. Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise…

> Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise in a non-legal setting is any more serious than a legal contract they already choose to break.

Apple said they would reinstate Epic based on a pinky promise, they just wanted more in the promise they didn't question the promise itself. Pinky promises are absolutely a thing, not sure why you are ridiculing that part here.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#18

Post by kevingadd »

isodev wrote: post #5
hughrr wrote: post #3

No winners either side. And of course no winning for their customers either. I increasingly want nothing to do with battling corporate giants.

Indeed. It was quite clear from the beginning this is more about Epic's bottom line than the interest of users or developers.

If the person or company suing Apple needs to have no ulterior motives, you'll never get a lawsuit, let alone a successful one. The court isn't going to care about hypothetical accusations, the lawsuit has to be brought by someone who was materially harmed by Apple's behavior. Epic pulled their stunt to set up a blatant example of what they believed to be inappropriate behavior, and on at least one count the court agreed with them.

Basically, the only way we would ever see action on this in the US is if a big player - like Epic - pulled a stunt like this to force their hand. As the evidence in the case showed, Apple was happy to try and pay people off to prevent them from filing a case like this, they offered Epic a sweetheart deal and eventually caved to pressure from Amazon.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#19

Post by threatofrain »

Jensson wrote: post #17
threatofrain wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is complying with court rulings, including the judgment that Apple's contract with Epic is valid and enforceable. Apple could hypothetically ban all of Epic's accounts forever, but only the Fortnite account is banned. This appears to be a win for... payment vendors. At this point Epic can only hope for legislative action. Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise…

> Also on the "reasonableness" of Epic's promises... I'm not sure why making a pinky promise in a non-legal setting is any more serious than a legal contract they already choose to break. Apple said they would reinstate Epic based on a pinky promise, they just wanted more in the promise they didn't question the promise itself. Pinky promises are absolutely a thing, not sure why you are ridiculing that part here.

Legal contracts are also a thing? In terms of seriousness, if you're willing to violate legal contracts, then what is the value of a pinky promise? The value of any promise is the sum of your credibility.

Re: Apple Will Not Reinstate Epic’s Fortnite Developer Account

#20

Post by dubcanada »

tpmx wrote: post #7

As an aside: Gruber/Daring Fireball seems to be getting less and less popular: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22darin...

I'm not sure going from an average of 25 searches to 5 really matters lol. Nobody really searches for him, they just read articles by him linked from somewhere else. Anyone who knows him is probably technical and just goes directly to his site.
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