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Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

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Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#11
post #9

There's a history of regionalism with regards to the cities and provinces in Pakistan that governs a lot of the domestic politics and intellectual milieu. Political parties tend to be a lot more regionally concentrated as opposed to American Political Parties which are spread out across the country. One of the often repeated lines is how any certain political party (take your pick) such as the one dominating the Sind…

After travelling and observing the world, I've come to the conclusion that most nations need Democracy like a starving man needs a foot massage. At best, it's just meaningless formalism. At worst, it can actively harm by providing outlets for ethnic/racial grievances in multicultural societies. I remember how instantly Yugoslavia disintegrated into racial and religious conflict after Tito. Heterogeneous societies ten…

Providing a defined, non-violent outlet for grievances is good, otherwise they come out as violence, like with Yugoslavia in your example.

My view might be biased because I'm from the subcontinent, but basically the whole of the Indian subcontinent has done better with democracy than it was doing without it.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#12
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After travelling and observing the world, I've come to the conclusion that most nations need Democracy like a starving man needs a foot massage. At best, it's just meaningless formalism. At worst, it can actively harm by providing outlets for ethnic/racial grievances in multicultural societies. I remember how instantly Yugoslavia disintegrated into racial and religious conflict after Tito. Heterogeneous societies ten…

Providing a defined, non-violent outlet for grievances is good, otherwise they come out as violence, like with Yugoslavia in your example. My view might be biased because I'm from the subcontinent, but basically the whole of the Indian subcontinent has done better with democracy than it was doing without it.

The civil war in Yugoslavia was the result of independence referendums after one party rule ended. It was the result of "democracy". This old idea that racial movements should be given free reign to express themselves as an outlet is the exact opposite of what most elites in the current democracies believe, as they are scrambling to reduce populism and ride the tiger of Democracy in diversifying societies while keeping things togther. The outlook is grim.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#13

[flagged]

I agree but it would be terrible to merge with Pakistan at this point.

I don’t think OP was suggesting merging the two countries.

My relatives in India would consider such a suggestion with horror. Pakistan rarely enters their conversations, except when there’s a terror attack. Most of them just want Pakistan to mind its own business and leave them alone.

Back to the story: In terms of size, diversity, and economic potential, Karachi is comparable to Mumbai, but the two cities couldn’t be more different today.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#15
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After travelling and observing the world, I've come to the conclusion that most nations need Democracy like a starving man needs a foot massage. At best, it's just meaningless formalism. At worst, it can actively harm by providing outlets for ethnic/racial grievances in multicultural societies. I remember how instantly Yugoslavia disintegrated into racial and religious conflict after Tito. Heterogeneous societies ten…

Providing a defined, non-violent outlet for grievances is good, otherwise they come out as violence, like with Yugoslavia in your example. My view might be biased because I'm from the subcontinent, but basically the whole of the Indian subcontinent has done better with democracy than it was doing without it.

we are not interested in India or Indians which most of you Karachi people are, we don’t want you in our Indus civilisation.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#16

[flagged]

I agree but it would be terrible to merge with Pakistan at this point.

what are you talking about, we don’t even think of India. Take back your Indians in Karachi. We just don’t consider or even like you or Bengalis, don’t talk about us because you people are not worth it.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but it would be terrible to merge with Pakistan at this point.

I don’t think OP was suggesting merging the two countries. My relatives in India would consider such a suggestion with horror. Pakistan rarely enters their conversations, except when there’s a terror attack. Most of them just want Pakistan to mind its own business and leave them alone. Back to the story: In terms of size, diversity, and economic potential, Karachi is comparable to Mumbai, but the two cities couldn’t…

just like we consider your existence in Pakistan as unwanted, go back to your country, we don’t want untouched in Pakistan.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can obviously research some of the points you've raised but it would be helpful to readers for you to provide some context. I don't know what FATA refers to for example, and it's not mentioned in the article you linked either.

FATA - federally administered tribal areas, aka no rights zone , aka Pakistan's own Pakistan. It used to be a special zone in place of what is the current Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province, in the north of the country, bordering Afghanistan.

as Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa is mentioned it reminded about "Kesari" - a movie about Battle of Saragarhi i watched recently (it is on Amazon Prime for example)

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#19

[flagged]

It pains me that there can never ever be an online discussion about Pakistan without our neighbors derailing it.

It would be useful to discuss rising extremism in both countries but you just put together a bunch of links to paint Pakistan as the devil and left. Please read the HN guidelines.

Re: Understanding Pakistan through the story of Karachi

#20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but it would be terrible to merge with Pakistan at this point.

I don’t think OP was suggesting merging the two countries. My relatives in India would consider such a suggestion with horror. Pakistan rarely enters their conversations, except when there’s a terror attack. Most of them just want Pakistan to mind its own business and leave them alone. Back to the story: In terms of size, diversity, and economic potential, Karachi is comparable to Mumbai, but the two cities couldn’t…

> but the two cities couldn’t be more different today.

What do you mean?

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