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How we got to LiveView

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Re: How we got to LiveView

#21

Post by bdcravens »

> Sync.rb works like this: the browser WebSockets to the server, and as Rails models change, templates get re-rendered on the server and pushed to the client. HTML rendered from the server would sign a tamper-proof subscription into the DOM for clients to listen to over WebSockets. The library provides JavaScript for the browser to run, but sync.rb programmers don't have to write any themselves. All the dynamic behavior is done server-side, in Ruby.

It sounds like Stimulus Reflex is essentially Sync v2 (today's libraries are able to accomplish Chris's original vision)

https://docs.stimulusreflex.com/

Re: How we got to LiveView

#22

Post by tommica »

I've had such hard time wrapping my head around how to think in liveview - I've tried tutorials and building my own projects, but always end up thinking "am I doing this the right way"? How do other people structure their codebase, and what are the considerations they have? I think I'm trying to force my way of working with react and laravel, and lack some kind of a fundamental way of thinking to get my "aha!" Moment

Re: How we got to LiveView

#23

Post by sodapopcan »

egze wrote: post #19

Just want to say - thanks Chris! LiveView is the most innovative web technology I've seen in the last 5-10 years, and it is an absolute joy to use.

Agreed. I haven't been this excited and motivated by any technology since I got into rails 10 years ago. It's been a great cure for the jadedness I've been feeling about our field in the past couple of years.

Re: How we got to LiveView

#24

Post by chrismccord »

spiderice wrote: post #15
ethnt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your work! One question I had is about when it comes to expanding beyond the web, what are the solutions available with Phoenix? For example, if I'm making a web app using LiveView, do I need to make a second app for my API for an iOS app?

I was actually just searching for this same thing on Google. I recently started a new project that LiveView would have been great for, but the fact that I need a native iOS/Android app caused me to go with Socket.IO instead for the backend. It seems likely to me that there is a way to use Phoenix channels with web, iOS, and Android.. but there isn't a lot of good information on doing it that I've been able to find. E…

Phoenix channels is similar to socket.io, except we multiplex the channels with their own events, vs socket io that creates a single bidirectional "channel" with events. So you can think of channels as namespaced socket.io, with the server side allowing isolated and concurrent message handlers to live.

The channel docs give a solid overview of the server side, and we have a listing of third-party channels clients for most platforms here:

https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/1.6.0-rc.1/channels.html#client-l...

Re: How we got to LiveView

#25

Post by tptacek »

bdcravens wrote: post #21

> Sync.rb works like this: the browser WebSockets to the server, and as Rails models change, templates get re-rendered on the server and pushed to the client. HTML rendered from the server would sign a tamper-proof subscription into the DOM for clients to listen to over WebSockets. The library provides JavaScript for the browser to run, but sync.rb programmers don't have to write any themselves. All the dynamic behav…

I think that's true? More platforms should invest in the "sync" vs. "render" abstraction, especially the platforms that have strong concurrency already.

A Big Phoenix idea though seems to be that you can take this a big step further: now that you're syncing, keep the state that you'd be attaching to React components serverside, and let sync update the front-end. It feels like a lot of the benefit you'd get out of a carefully-designed GraphQL API, but with none of the plumbing work.

Re: How we got to LiveView

#26

Post by davidw »

chrismccord wrote: post #2

Creator of Phoenix here. I'm happy to answer any questions folks have about LiveView, Phoenix, or Elixir in general. We've had some big LiveView features land recently with uploads and HEEx so now's a great time to jump in!

Business-wise, what do you think the sweet spots are for LiveView, Phoenix and Elixir right now? I love the BEAM ecosystem (I've been using it since 2004, on and off), but for a lot of places, Rails is still a great place to start. What kinds of applications have you seen where all the BEAM features just make Phoenix et al not just a little snappier, but a clear winner?

Re: How we got to LiveView

#27

Post by tclancy »

hervature wrote: post #12
chrismccord wrote: post #2

Creator of Phoenix here. I'm happy to answer any questions folks have about LiveView, Phoenix, or Elixir in general. We've had some big LiveView features land recently with uploads and HEEx so now's a great time to jump in!

Hey Chris, excellent work. Very excited about 1.6 and LiveView. If you update your Programming Phoenix, I would certainly pay again.

Seconded!

Re: How we got to LiveView

#28

Post by scraplab »

chrismccord wrote: post #2

Creator of Phoenix here. I'm happy to answer any questions folks have about LiveView, Phoenix, or Elixir in general. We've had some big LiveView features land recently with uploads and HEEx so now's a great time to jump in!

Hi Chris - this is superb, really pleased to see LiveView getting so much attention, and thanks for all your hard work.

Can you talk a little about the current story with deployments and managing state across/during those?

Obviously Erlang/OTP supports hot upgrades, but those are hard to design correctly and not supported by container/VM environments like Heroku and (I presume?) Fly.io.

Re: How we got to LiveView

#29

Post by vosper »

> HTTP almost entirely falls away. No more REST. No more JSON. No GraphQL APIs, controllers, serializers, or resolvers

In React / Typescript world you can get a little bit of this with Blitz - but not the live updating part, as far as I know. I found there was quite a lot to learn, but I’d also been out of the React world for a couple of years. Probably getting up to speed with TS was half of it, and obviously that’s not due to Blitz.

It has felt quite magical thinking only about the DB and React, and so far it’s just worked.

“Blitz is a batteries-included framework that's inspired by Ruby on Rails, is built on Next.js, and features a "Zero-API" data layer abstraction that eliminates the need for REST/GraphQL.”

https://blitzjs.com/

Re: How we got to LiveView

#30

Post by whitepoplar »

chrismccord wrote: post #2

Creator of Phoenix here. I'm happy to answer any questions folks have about LiveView, Phoenix, or Elixir in general. We've had some big LiveView features land recently with uploads and HEEx so now's a great time to jump in!

If one wanted to learn LiveView today, what's the best resource to learn? Also, will there be improvements to the LiveView latency story (if it's even possible) when providing a service to a global audience? Thanks for all your work!
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