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London riots / UK riots: verified areas

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Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#31

Post by reader5000 »

Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

It's not native Britons rioting, largely it is young members of immigrant communities. However, given the apparent youth of the rioters I doubt racial politics is a significant issue here. It appears to indeed be rioting for the sake of rioting.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#32

Post by polshaw »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #21
abcd_f wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was the trigger that started the riots?

It appears a known criminal (gangs, drug-dealing) with a loaded handgun was shot by police while resisting arrest; he may or may not have shot a police officer [first] at the time of his arrest ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-cruc... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile...

relevant to note that subsequent rioting has had little to do with this. (more general) anger towards the police, along with opportunistic looting.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#33

Post by polshaw »

reader5000 wrote: post #31
Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

It's not native Britons rioting, largely it is young members of immigrant communities. However, given the apparent youth of the rioters I doubt racial politics is a significant issue here. It appears to indeed be rioting for the sake of rioting.

I disagree that we are seeing any significant number of first generation immigrants here.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#34

Post by alex_c »

__rkaup__ wrote: post #25
Mz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deeply in debt and being sued by my creditors. I am deeply in debt because I and my oldest son have a genetic disorder and I figured out how to get us well when the entire world says it cannot be done. Since the entire world frames the problem the way it does, there would be financial support for keeping me and my son ill and lifelong legal drug addicts. There is no financial support for things that actually work…

And now since that comment is dead, I have no idea what you were arguing against. I suppose from the response it's not worth worrying about, but it does sort of irritate me.

You can go to your profile and select "showdead" to see dead comments. It sometimes makes for an eerie browsing experience.

You're not missing much in this case, a rather strange troll comment from an otherwise thoughtful commenter.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#35

Post by semanticist »

reader5000 wrote: post #31
Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

It's not native Britons rioting, largely it is young members of immigrant communities. However, given the apparent youth of the rioters I doubt racial politics is a significant issue here. It appears to indeed be rioting for the sake of rioting.

Almost every report I have heard, from the media and from people directly there, has made it clear that these are mixed-race groups of young people.

This is not 'immigrant communities', this is people who were born here.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#38

Post by tomsaffell »

reader5000 wrote: post #31
Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

It's not native Britons rioting, largely it is young members of immigrant communities. However, given the apparent youth of the rioters I doubt racial politics is a significant issue here. It appears to indeed be rioting for the sake of rioting.

Source required. It's not completely clear what you mean by native and immigrant, but it could be construed as racial slander. Please clarify and source.

NB - I'm not normally a stickler for sourcing, but I feel a statement as controversial as this requires one.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#39

Post by watmough »

itg wrote: post #30
Fargren wrote: post #28

I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but why is this happening? I read that this started saturday as a protest against a policeman who shot someone, but that doesn't seem to be what the protests is about now. The sources I checked don't reach any kind of consensus.

Started off as a protest against a police shooting (details will depend on which side you ask) and then escalated. Now it is just vandalizing, destroying property, and looting. Some BBC commenters were saying that for the young guys, the austerity measures with a combination of feeling marginalized, unemployed, and no hope for a future plays a part in this too.

Yes, the eighties austerity, cuts, unemployment and we had riots then too.

Local council budgets are being cut. Libraries and swimming pools, after school activities, policing. All being eroded.

From what I see of the news, it's somehow different this time. Perhaps more nihilistic, versus the more confrontational riots in the eighties. It definitely seems there's a goal of hitting shops full of 'shinys'.

Of course, modern messaging may also be playing a part in enabling more 'agile' riots.

Re: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

#40

Post by viraptor »

jsmcgd wrote: post #36

For me this is simple opportunism. The authorities have clearly been overwhelmed and people are able to do what they like with impunity. I really think the state response needs to escalate.

True, I was scanning reports for some serious police/military actions but found nothing. Vehicles and buildings are on fire, rioters are aggressive and don't care about the police, random people are injured... I really find it hard to come up with an explanation for not using force necessary to stop it right now. That's a third day now - each adding damage to completely unrelated people and property.

I work in Bristol and wouldn't be surprised if riots started happening in some areas there, unless London ones are dealt with straight away.

Edit: Just read reports of police stations being set on fire. Now I'm really curious what exactly is the official plan for dealing with the situation.

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