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Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

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Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#111

Post by tomComb »

BrendanEich wrote: post #107
tomComb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not stupid: I'm not going to discard my judgement based on careful examination of independent parties in favour of how you want me to judge it. (Even if I hadn't seen that you are not trustworthy and will aggressively attack people for speaking the truth.) > If you don't believe me, then there's no point in talking. Ok, something we can agree upon!

I didn't refer you to independent parties. You can check Brave (we provide old versions on github) and you won't ever find us replacing ads in publisher pages. We're all open source on the client side, so you can read revision histories too. If you don't check for yourself, then how do you know what you said is true?

> I didn't refer you to independent parties.

? I think you're misunderstanding my comment- maybe you are going to fast. (I must admit that you've got energy.)

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#112

Post by bserge »

What does "no tracking" even mean here? Does it include no facial recognition?

I mean, ffs, the FBI or Interpol or whoever could release such an app using keywords that mean nothing these days. Privacy preserving, no tracking, no installation, no special permissions.

We just match everyone on video against a criminal database, but it's fine, we don't save your mugshot if you're not a criminal!

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#113

Post by babbledabbler »

BrendanEich wrote: post #91
hundchenkatze wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly is their revenue model? Seems they're still trying to figure that out.

No, we are transparent about it. https://brave.com/brave-rewards https://brave.com/transparency and premium products such as VPN, Talk, more to come. EDIT: some of you think we should do only a browser, but we also have a search engine now ( https://search.brave.com/ ). We're going big across privacy and user-agent models that fit together well and provide our users with value in the form of products, also in revenue…

This is really neat to see. I'm actually working on an idea that involves conferencing and have been using jitsi's open source solution for the POC. I've been impressed with the openness and flexibility of the platform.

Are there any plans to enable installable third party app/extensions with talk.brave like zoom is currently rolling out their app store?

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#114

Post by BrendanEich »

nicce wrote: post #67
jppope wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure... but lets remove the whole trust/ ad thing... Brave is a faster version of chrome, and Brave search gives me the code sample I'm searching for first thing in the sidebar...both are major improvements in my life. It's a better product.

> Brave is a faster version of chrome This line alone makes Brace insecure . It relies on the upstream project. Whenever the upstream project gets a security patch, it will be exploited on the downstream and there is X time for the update, unless you have the userbase of Edge or something. But everybody has opinions to prioritize and we can discuss about them forever.

We update within a day of Chrome on all channels. This is a piece of work, but much less than creating our own engine (which would have its own security bug habitat and early bugs to shake out, until maintenance using bounties and fuzzing). https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Deviations-from-...

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#115

Post by BrendanEich »

tomComb wrote: post #111
BrendanEich wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't refer you to independent parties. You can check Brave (we provide old versions on github) and you won't ever find us replacing ads in publisher pages. We're all open source on the client side, so you can read revision histories too. If you don't check for yourself, then how do you know what you said is true?

> I didn't refer you to independent parties. ? I think you're misunderstanding my comment- maybe you are going to fast. (I must admit that you've got energy.)

It would help if you named your "independent parties" plural you're relying on. It seems you can't inspect our product or code for yourself. Are you sure you have a reliable and independent source who has checked our work? Hint: not David Gerard.

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#116

Post by mraudiobook_com »

open-paren wrote: post #4

To start a call, there is a requirement that you are 1) Using the Brave Browser 2) Have Brave Rewards (their crypto-and-ads service) turned on. Not loving that. Edit: the first one is fine (although a little strange that it is a requirement here but not for their other products, like Brave Search). I'm irked by the second one.

Why irked? Oh, wait that's right, HN hates cryptocurrency, sorry I forgot.

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#117

Post by jonathansampson »

ziddoap wrote: post #109
jonathansampson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replaces implies in-situ substitution (i.e. ads on pages, etc.); in fact this is often what is explicitly stated when the claim "Brave replaces ads" is made (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28619682 for a local example). Brave blocks harmful ads and trackers, and introduced an alternate model to supply missed revenue for creators. Brave Ads (desktop notifications) are off by default in Brave; users must opt-…

I can't help but wonder if you were in politics at some point in your career, being able to hinge on a very strict and literal definition of "replace" and missing the entire spirit of topic at hand.

Words have semantic range, and this is no less true for "replace" than for any other word. In 2016 there were reports that Brave would replace ads [meaning in-situ, in-page substitution] with its own ads. This never happened. Yet the claim continues to live on (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28619682 for a local example). But anybody who downloads and uses Brave for a few seconds can quickly tell that this is not the case.

But perhaps this first reading wasn't the proper exegesis; perhaps the author meant only "Brave blocks Google's ads, and has created its own advertising model in its place." If that's the intended understanding, then yes, that's correct. Google's ads are privacy-leaches who parasitically attack to non-consenting hosts, sucking as much data out as possible.

Brave Ads replaces Google Ads. Brave Ads is based on consent, privacy, and equity. With Brave Ads, you have to opt-in to participate. If/when you do, you receive 70% of the revenue, and you share [no data] in the process. Google's model is quite the opposite; you don't opt-in, you don't get revenue, and your data is piped out to a third-party where it is sold, rented, and/or amended onto whatever profile exists for you on the Web.

Yes, Brave replaces Google

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#118

Post by nicce »

BrendanEich wrote: post #98
nicce wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They block their rival's ads and bring their own instead. It might be visible on a little different location, but in the end the result is the same; replacing ads from the websites.

False. Did you even check your claim, or are you parroting some unreliable source?

Yes. It is on your web page: https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026361072-Bra...

> Rather than displaying Ads on web pages, Brave Ads appear as push notifications on your device that you can choose to engage with or dismiss.

I did not say it is a default behavior, but in the end you are blocking ads and bringing new ads, hence replacing. Just an another way to provide ads. Just a different way of seeing the concept as a whole.

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#119

Post by peakaboo »

open-paren wrote: post #4

To start a call, there is a requirement that you are 1) Using the Brave Browser 2) Have Brave Rewards (their crypto-and-ads service) turned on. Not loving that. Edit: the first one is fine (although a little strange that it is a requirement here but not for their other products, like Brave Search). I'm irked by the second one.

This is the wrong way for them to do it. It must work on all browsers and the they can possibly add features that make people WANT to use Brave, not force them to do it.

Re: Brave Talk – Privacy-Preserving Video Conferencing

#120

Post by BrendanEich »

tomComb wrote: post #106
BrendanEich wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you like Firefox, I spent a lot of years on it, and on Mozilla, Gecko, SpiderMonkey, and the XUL platform before it. But Mozilla is currently beholden to Google and this has left them with year over year market share losses against Chrome. I don't see how they've "undermined" Google. If they switch to Bing as scooped by TechCrunch, they may start.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with your record - you sell it endlessly. Your getting in early at Mozilla doesn't make up for the damage you've done to the web with Brave.

"damage"? Be serious. Brave even at 40M users has not done enough to the Web to merit such fake-drama langauge from you. What's your issue?
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