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‘Every message was copied to the police’

theguardian.com

41–50 of 193 posts

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never roll your own security if you actually want security, either. What are we supposed to do :).

Use one time pads

In this situation that would leave you open to network analysis and location analysis, even if no payloads were decryptable.

Using enough data warehousing and artificial intelligence, eventually some algorithm would notice that every time some dude gets a phone call, next month the same boat gets a bill for servicing its water intakes, and a month later coke supply increases in .au decreasing the price. Might take a few times, but someone's getting caught.

The best part is if they go in shooting on a warrant and kill some random completely uninvolved people, it was all an algorithm's fault and nobody is to blame and I guess we just need more police involvement and surveillance to prevent future tragedies.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#42
post #34
post #16

The striking thing is that criminal enterprise relies on software as much as any other legitimate business. The adage "software is eating the world" comes to mind. It's probably the case that more technically adept criminals will roll their own tech and out manoeuvre rival criminals and law enforcement. Considering the sums of money discussed in the article it's not inconceivable for criminal organisations to start c…

You would think that, but the whole an0m thing showed that it wasn't really the case.

That’s one case. It doesn’t apply to all criminal organizations. The cartels in Mexico are sophisticated enough to build their own cell networks [1] to evade wiretapping. Why couldn’t they also recruit engineers to build their own crypto and secure protocols?

[1] https://www.npr.org/2011/12/09/143442365/mexico-busts-drug-c...

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#43

Never outsource security if you actually want security...

Never roll your own security if you actually want security, either. What are we supposed to do :).

If you do roll your own and you’re not a high value target (aka there aren’t a lot of assets they can seize or are a notorious criminal) nobody is going to take the time to bust open your homegrown setup. Security by obscurity is powerful. There is a reason why Wordpress sites get hacked a lot: the exploit has a lot of leverage with 1/4 to 1/3 of the public web using it.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Messages on their own are considered criminal until proven otherwise, just like your cash (see civil forfeiture). I wish I could add /s

I recall reading a while back that judges were signing off on surveillance warrants based on messages using any sort of encryption (like https), because obviously anyone encrypting a message is up to no-good. /s ;)

> based on messages using any sort of encryption (like https)

I hope you're strongly /s, because if HTTPS being used as transport is enough to rubber-stamp a warrant, then this is in practice a blanket agreement to surveil all communications on the Internet.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use one time pads

One time pads are really inconvenient and hard to get right. That's why they are almost never used in practice, despite being theoretically perfect. First, you need to generate large amounts of unbiased, true random data. If it is not true randomness, you have a stream cypher, and if you "rolled your own", probably not a good one. They you have to store the one-time pad. It is usually too big to memorize. You have to…

IF you want to send arbitrary data. Usually people don't need that.

For something like coke smuggling you just need to know its on the way, get ready. So the OTP could be something as lame as "if you get a phone call from some rando who says 'Taste the Feeling'" then the next boat is full of coke, or if not, then the next boat is not full of coke". Actually terrible idea as taste the feeling was a coke company slogan a couple years back, but you get the general idea.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#46
One of the earlier items posted on this investigation highlights what's an increasing concern of mine as regards the investigation: That the methods used are illegal in the US by virtue of the 4th Amendment protections on search and privacy:

FBI agents were not allowed to download or read any messages sent from AN0M accounts in the United States because of privacy laws. President of the NSW Council of Civil Liberties Pauline Wright said the US had "pretty strict protections around human rights and privacy" which Australia did not have. "It illustrates that Australia is an outlier in terms of protections for human rights and civil liberties," she said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/no-one-in-america-arr... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27509550)

For all the devices sold and messages surveilled, "over 800" arrests occurred in 18 countries, the bulk in in Australia, though also Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/08/anom-...). 12,000 devices were issued (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-57394831).

That's a ratio of about 7% arrests --- which means that for every 15 persons whose every communication was monitored for a year and a half, sufficient evidence to make an arrest could not be found for 14 of them. And that the investigation would have included all of Xheir furXher conXacXs as well. Xhis in a world where six degrees separates any two people.

I'm not sure these 11,200 or so people are pure as the driven snow, but they did give up their privacy rights under a general warrant, but not under direct suspicion according o he reports I've seen. And he legality has been questioned:

https://www.necessarybehavior.com/blogs/news/operation-troja...

I suspect a fair argument could be made that the FBI exceeded its legal authority in this operation and that the operation itself was illegal.

That there have been no US arrests officially linked to the operaiton isn't a guarantee that none will occur, though those might well occur under "parallel construction" or similar pracXices, where inadmissable evidence is used as the pretext to obtain evidence that can stand in US courts. The very fact that the FBI were active participants in An0m / Operation Trojan Shield / Operation Ironside taints any investigations for years going forward.

The other tradecraft lessons are that:

- Only cryptographic methods secure enough to be of interest to criminals are sufficient for the rest of us.

- Whether a criminal or simply on watchlists for other reasons, those who need cryptography are best served where their use of it doesn't significantly highlight them from the rest of the population.

It's that second factor which both makes tools such as An0m so inherently risky to the privacy-conscious, and which explains the 30-year-long concerted an unyielding press by world governments to keep effective cryptography out of the general public's hands by preventing its being built into generally-used tools. Even strong crypto, if sufficently rarely used, becomes just another metadata point in identifying subjects of interest

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#47
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not both? Encrypt your message with your home grown encryption, then send it through standard TLS. Both would have to fail for the message to be revealed. Sometimes when I'm wearing my tinfoil hat I wonder if the advice to avoid rolling your own crypto is a conspiracy. The powers that be want to maintain their backdoors, maybe? Probably not. Of course, it's definitely true that there are more attack vectors out t…

I think that this isn't strictly true. If you naïvely apply bad encryption before good you may weaken the entire system. For a silly example, imagine your "homegrown" crypto adds a publicly known plaintext to the start of the cyphertext. I think this is discussed in Schneier's textbook.

> If you naïvely apply bad encryption before good you may weaken the entire system

The strength of the system can be viewed from multiple angles. From a practical angle, applying one kind of commercial encryption on top of another type of commercial encryption turns it into a technically weaker, but unique cryptosystem. And uniqueness has value if you're just a single fish in a big pond.

For instance, if one single An0m customer had applied a caesar cypher to their communications, the cops might have skipped over him due to the unknown cost of putting dedicated crypto effort into one person in a massive dragnet.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not both? Encrypt your message with your home grown encryption, then send it through standard TLS. Both would have to fail for the message to be revealed. Sometimes when I'm wearing my tinfoil hat I wonder if the advice to avoid rolling your own crypto is a conspiracy. The powers that be want to maintain their backdoors, maybe? Probably not. Of course, it's definitely true that there are more attack vectors out t…

I also wonder why there's such a pushback against one-time-pads. The common critiques don't seem to be any greater of a risk than the holes we've already encountered (e.g. heartbleed). I think I remember a scifi story that mentioned some character who worked in the one-time-pad shipping business. I guess a spacecraft full of data storage can hold enough random data to last for a long time. Seems like we should at lea…

Unless you’re using a true random number generator that works on a mechanical/electrical process a lot of encryption algorithms are various ways of creating a one-time pad. And they save a lot on space which used to be precious. With a single key much smaller than a megabyte I can encrypt essentially endlessly where for the normal OTP process I need as much random data as there is data to be encrypted which gets unwieldy extremely quickly even with cheap storage.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#49
post #35
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its harder to erase paper trails, so I think the future of crime is using open source or in-house comms tools.

Fire, judiciously applied, can erase paper trails rather efficiently.

And evidence of burning possibly indicting evidence is all the more indicting.

Re: ‘Every message was copied to the police’

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could learn to use Signal. Properly installed (F-Droid) on off-the-shelf phones with fresh prepaid sims and OS updates disabled, it can be considered secure software against all but the most sophisticated adversaries. Then, simply verify the handshake key for your contacts, and you can be sure there is no man in the middle attack. Rotate phone+sim every 2 months, while keeping the same "outside" number, say,…

The easier way to attack this is by instituting a know your customer law for phone systems including prepaid SIMs, combined with accomplice charges for anyone who's SIM is used in connection with criminal acts.

People are too free with their phones. Just walk into a bar and say you're too drunk to drive and could the bartender call my wife to pick me up? Not knowing its actually picking up $60M worth of coke instead of picking up me.

Or pull off to the side of the road, walk in well dressed, wave a dead iphone in front of them, ask the receptionist "hey my car broke down and my battery is dead, could you call this number and tell them my car broke down?" Or bonus points if the cops arrive because you're blocking traffic, ask the cop to call on their phone.

(edited I got the best idea that most anyone would fall for: Slip a kid $20 to ask an adult to call his mommie because he got lost...)

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