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Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

healthcaredive.com

171–180 of 463 posts

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance has the worst moral hazard: the winning strategy is to sell a product that pretends to cover your customers but actually doesn't. Your customers give you money for nothing and they will only realize it once in a blue moon. You can probably buy off the few who are capable of causing actual blowback, and if that doesn't work just rebrand. Until everyone becomes a contract lawyer capable of devoting weeks to i…

Insurance isn't inherently a moral hazard.

Inherently? No, just under capitalism.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#173
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that encourages greater payouts more or less synced with greater premiums in order to increase year over year real profits. And given that the payouts are very nearly a function of how hard the insurance company can negotiate, they can simply choose to call off the negotiations when they reach their target amount.

Only up to a point, they still accept or recheck claims arbitrarily to get closer to their targets. Worse they have incentives to decrease efficiency by increasing paperwork etc. Private medical insurance in the US is a horridly inefficient system. Separating the claims process from insurance companies hands might help, but their incentives are never going to line up with consumers.

This is not remotely true.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every head of the insurance/drug/provider dog points at the other two heads when somebody accuses it of being the problem.

Voters not wanting to pay for comprehensive care for everyone is a 4th head. The current system of healthcare is great for allocating different amounts of healthcare to different classes of people, so that it is great for 20 to 30% of people, okay for 20%, and not good for 50%, and that is why it persists. There is no reason Medicare should be restricted to those over 65, or why Medicaid is implemented differently (a…

> There is no reason Medicare should be restricted to those over 65, or why Medicaid is implemented differently (and reimburses providers more poorly than Medicare). Or even Tricare. We have at least 3 different taxpayer funded healthcare programs specifically so not everyone can get access to equal care, but so that various classes of people can get healthcare proportional to their political power (which usually scale with money, but also votes in the case of old people).

Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements are insufficient to support most medical practices. Tricare is for military & their families. Most active duty military are young & extremely healthy compared to the general population.

Medicare/Medicaid combined are the largest single item on the federal budget. More importantly, they are still growing in costs because of an aging population, and are heading towards 30% overall of the federal budget [1]

Tricare operates as an employment perk. Medicare has a cap on benefits, but is effectively mandatory for 65+, and medicaid operates as a payor of last resort, after folks have run out their lifetime benefits on medicare.

However, an argument in favor of your suggestion is that the vast majority of medical resources are spent on the last 2 years of life, often for terminally ill patients with a ton of co-morbidities that are at death's door anyways. Most medical spending happens in the latter part of life [2]

> 25% of Medicare’s annual spending is used by the 5% of patients during the last 12 months of their lives [3]

[1] https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2010...

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/

[3] https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/09/28/true-cost-end-life-medi...

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#176
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not technically "insurance", these are cost-sharing companies. Often religious due to Obama's brilliance.

Is there evidence that Obama wanted those religious exemptions and bullshit cost sharing plans? I would be willing to bet that was a concession to other politicians in Congress in order to get ACA passed.

I'm thankful the concession was made. The lower price of cost-sharing made it possible for my parents to keep eating while providing for the family.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#177
post #150
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You inspired me to look at the local hospital we just delivered our first child at. They release 'standard charges' which as far as I can tell means 'the range of charges for this particular diagnosis based on past data' as an excel file. But the price list is a text file delimited by pipes (vertical bars... |) which just seems unnecessary. They also do nothing to define the variables or column names they use...so th…

Pipes are commonly used as delimiters in healthcare settings [1]. A quick quack suggests Python, Javascript and Perl ecosystems have HL7 parsing libraries available. I assume most languages do. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Level_7

Yep, probably an HL7 message. In the case of vertical bars, pretty sure it's HL7v2

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#178

I am one of the people responsible for making these lists. The fact that the general public as well as journalists think this data is accurate in anyway is really funny. This an exercise of futility that only increases the overall cost and provides job security for me :) No one working in a hospital knows how much do we acquire things for, or how much we get paid for doing things in advance. And only like 8 people ca…

> The fact that the general public as well as journalists think this data is accurate in anyway is really funny. This an exercise of futility that only increases the overall cost and provides job security for me :)

People are literally dying out here from administrative bloat and you're joking about job security. Your comment comes across as cavalier and even a bit callous.

With that said, I respect the systemic and historical complexity of the problem and don't mean to suggest that you personally are the problem. I understand that you're pointing out the Kafkaesque futility from within the trenches; I think I get where you're coming from.

May I suggest that you rephrase your critique next time in a way that would communicate empathy so that we might in turn empathize with your situation? If these spreadsheets are feel-good window dressing (not that I agree), then state your case and let's stop wasting time on them. What do you think should be done instead?

Let us improve things together.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#179
I am willing to take some time and build a publicly available API of this. I care so much about this issue that I would build this db at my own cost and hope it truly helps people. if anyone wants to join forces, feel free to send any suggestions.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, revealing giant swings in pricing by procedure

#180
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price transparency is a pointless shell game designed to keep everyone strung along on the entrenched, failed system. When you're having a heart attack, the last thing you're doing is shopping around for the best prices on heart attack emergency treatment. The free market has no place in health care, because in the hands of the free market the first thing that will happen in a life-threatening emergency is for you to…

I agree that it's pointless for emergency surgery, but there are plenty of other cases where a consumer could shop around (colonoscopy, ACL repair, etc), and I'd argue these are actually the majority rather than the minority of cases. To me it comes down to - if we are going to pretend we have a market based system for health care (that's what we say we have now), we need pricing transparency to have any hope of it w…

> I'd argue these are actually the majority rather than the minority of cases.

For well-insured middle-class people. Poor working people only get emergency care

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