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Busting the 10x software engineer myth

swarmia.com

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Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#151

Post by mmargerum »

m12k wrote: post #139
dijit wrote: post #3

I know "10x engineers" exist; some people are fakes and put forward things that look like they have high impact but are actually a bit shoddy. Some people like to be present and suck up. But some people really do just work hard, smart and have deep passion for what they're doing- and importantly: pride, which makes the quality of the content great too. Some of the best engineers I know "visit" bits of code or infrast…

On the flipside, I've met "10x engineers" who always prioritized working on highly visible and strategic new features, and excelled at shipping them as fast as possible, even if it meant racking up massive technical debt. By doing this, they effectively did produce 10x as much in the eyes of management, and got promoted and rewarded in kind. The technical debt they racked up then got paid by everyone else that had to…

I have the opposite issue here. I have an engineer still writing VB6 code and we have 20 man years of his technical debt we have to live with. He never learned anything new and he has a hammer and everything is a nail.

As a >5x engineer I generally build out the initial design/development of a project and then hand it off to a team member to maintain. I get involved only when there is a new significant feature that needs to be added.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#152

Post by johntiger1 »

bjourne wrote: post #97

This article is pure clickbait written to sell in this stupid Swarmia startup. :) 10x developers exist just like 10x musicians, 10x marathon runners, or 10x chess players exist. It may take a world-class musician a week to write a masterful symphony but it would take me way longer. Perhaps I'd never produce anything great so that musician would be infinitely better at it than me. Great chess players beat amateurs at…

Can a 10x marathon runner finish 26 miles in less than 1 hour? How about 10 minutes? There _are_ gaps between skill levels, but from personal experience, no one is substantially worse or better. We are after all just flesh and bone...

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#153

Post by mmargerum »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #144
dijit wrote: post #3

I know "10x engineers" exist; some people are fakes and put forward things that look like they have high impact but are actually a bit shoddy. Some people like to be present and suck up. But some people really do just work hard, smart and have deep passion for what they're doing- and importantly: pride, which makes the quality of the content great too. Some of the best engineers I know "visit" bits of code or infrast…

Yeah, this is an important point when thinking about it from an organization perspective. I've been at places where they "only wanted to hire rockstars" which was beyond stupid. By definition 10x developers are rare and are going to have a lot of options when it comes to where they work. So if you depend on some member of the team carrying a hugely disproportionate amount of the work, then you are in for a rude awake…

The problem I have is they always want me to train someone as insurance for if I leave. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when you make me work and train mediocre people. I just want to build great things and be left alone.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#154

Post by agd »

Out of the 50 ish devs I've worked with closely, I've seen two I would say are in the '10x' camp. They were relentless in writing solid, simple, bug-free code, and doing so faster than everyone else. They were also effective in communicating their work. i.e. They weren't head-down in the corner savants.

Their productivity was also significantly more consistent across a range of areas and task complexity, compared with other devs who would slow if working in an unfamiliar area or on a more complex task.

Finally, good (and bad) decision making compounds with software. The right high level approach can pay easily pay of 10x over time just as a bad approach will result in buggy, bad performing software, and multiple rewrites.

In short, this article does not match my experience.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#155

Post by eurasiantiger »

fastball wrote: post #145
bjourne wrote: post #97

This article is pure clickbait written to sell in this stupid Swarmia startup. :) 10x developers exist just like 10x musicians, 10x marathon runners, or 10x chess players exist. It may take a world-class musician a week to write a masterful symphony but it would take me way longer. Perhaps I'd never produce anything great so that musician would be infinitely better at it than me. Great chess players beat amateurs at…

Wouldn't winning 99/100 be a 100x chess player?

Depends on how much the 1x wins, and that depends on who they play, where, when, in what state of mind, with what extra resources…

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#156

Post by Consultant32452 »

johntiger1 wrote: post #152
bjourne wrote: post #97

This article is pure clickbait written to sell in this stupid Swarmia startup. :) 10x developers exist just like 10x musicians, 10x marathon runners, or 10x chess players exist. It may take a world-class musician a week to write a masterful symphony but it would take me way longer. Perhaps I'd never produce anything great so that musician would be infinitely better at it than me. Great chess players beat amateurs at…

Can a 10x marathon runner finish 26 miles in less than 1 hour? How about 10 minutes? There _are_ gaps between skill levels, but from personal experience, no one is substantially worse or better. We are after all just flesh and bone...

The average marathon run time is about 4.5 hours. The world record marathon run time is 2 hours.

Most people who run cannot even complete a marathon. Then there are ultramarathons.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#157

Post by eurasiantiger »

cheschire wrote: post #118
z3t4 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't measure a developer. So you can't say someone is 10x faster or better. If you add a bench-mark like how many LOC is written per day, most will exceed at that benchmark, but the overall quality will go down.

Schrodinger's project management: developers are measurable as long as they don't know they are being measured.

Better play it safe and commit more often.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#158

Post by KptMarchewa »

z3t4 wrote: post #99
bjourne wrote: post #97

This article is pure clickbait written to sell in this stupid Swarmia startup. :) 10x developers exist just like 10x musicians, 10x marathon runners, or 10x chess players exist. It may take a world-class musician a week to write a masterful symphony but it would take me way longer. Perhaps I'd never produce anything great so that musician would be infinitely better at it than me. Great chess players beat amateurs at…

The problem is that you can't measure a developer. So you can't say someone is 10x faster or better. If you add a bench-mark like how many LOC is written per day, most will exceed at that benchmark, but the overall quality will go down.

When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#159

Post by PragmaticPulp »

johntiger1 wrote: post #152
bjourne wrote: post #97

This article is pure clickbait written to sell in this stupid Swarmia startup. :) 10x developers exist just like 10x musicians, 10x marathon runners, or 10x chess players exist. It may take a world-class musician a week to write a masterful symphony but it would take me way longer. Perhaps I'd never produce anything great so that musician would be infinitely better at it than me. Great chess players beat amateurs at…

Can a 10x marathon runner finish 26 miles in less than 1 hour? How about 10 minutes? There _are_ gaps between skill levels, but from personal experience, no one is substantially worse or better. We are after all just flesh and bone...

> Can a 10x marathon runner finish 26 miles in less than 1 hour?

That’s the wrong analogy because marathon runners are already the 10x-ers of movement.

The average person could cover the distance of a marathon, but it would take them many days of walking and resting.

A marathon runner can finish a marathon in around 5 hours. That’s an order of magnitude faster than an average person, so yes, they are 10X-ers.

Most people can walk, but few people can cover so much ground so quickly. That’s the essence of the 10X designator.

The average programmer is not like the average marathon runner.

Re: Busting the 10x software engineer myth

#160

Post by alfiedotwtf »

> In a controlled environment, the variation between most software engineers is much more modest.

I have a feeling the writing has never worked with 10x developers. You know, everyone knows, that there's a galactic difference between the average team member vs that 10x in the corner crafting code like an artist chiseling into a block of marble.

... and then there's that awe inspiring, humbling privilege when you score getting onto a team where everyone are 10x-er.

The variation between most software engineers isn't modest, it's a Mariana Trench of a difference.

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