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The last days of Silicon Roundabout

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Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#101
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

That's true and the need to be able to drive a car is also a hard stop to move to the USA. I had a job offer but they wanted me to move from the UK to the US. I didn't get the feeling you can live in the US without a car. Public transport is non-existent or very limited. Maybe my picture of the US or California is wrong

It's only really in some compact cities like SF or Manhattan with good public transport that you don't need a car. Car clubs are useful for local trips. But SV and other towns and cities you'd need one. I'd say in Manhattan having a car is a liability!

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#102
post #17

Everything I read on the internet suggests that UK tech salaries are extremely low, and that the profession has a low level of respect overall. I have many many foreign or first generation immigrant coworkers, but almost no one British. I'm surprised, because there's no language barrier and a minimal cultural barrier, but still the vast majority of my coworkers are from places that are much harder to immigrate from.…

This may be controversial, but I think most of us Brits, even the liberal-internationalist ones, have enough national attachment to the place that it makes it hard to leave. We can tell you the top fifty things wrong with the country if you have the time, but have no intention of quitting just because it's a bit shit.

The taint of cynical fatalism is the main thing that distinguishes us from the rest of the Anglosphere. It makes us unable to participate in corporate boosterism. And it often prevents us from taking opportunities. Nowhere on the same level as the Russian national character, but it's definitely an important part of British culture and humor.

As is snobbishness about Americans. This dates back to the war and beyond ("over paid and over here" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/unite...), and I suspect this lurks beneath the surface; moving to America would not only mean surrounding yourself with Americans, but admitting that they'd won. (Again, even if you're a liberal-internationalist Brit, Americans are the last foreigners it's OK to be prejudiced against)

Having moved from Cambridge to Edinburgh to secure a better salary/house price tradeoff, I get a double dose of this: Scotland is entirely made of people whose ancestors didn't flee the country in a previous economic disaster (either the Highland Clearances, the end of Empire, or Thatcherism), and that biases people against leaving.

(I've thought about it myself on a couple of occasions; the first time I was young and single and feared moving to a country where I knew nobody, and the second time was yesterday reading a government statement that we're definitely not running out of gas over the winter)

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#103
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do people think folks who work for FAANGs are paying for health care? My out of pocket max for a year is $3000. And I pay $25 a month. If I had a family it'd be something like $60 a month and an out of packet max of $7500. And that's the expensive plan, out of pocket max wise (for a lower monthly payment). I haven't come across anyone who was out of network my entire time here. Granted that's more than 0, bu…

The biggest issue I had with the US healthcare system was how confusing it is. And how much you seem to have to know upfront what you’ll need, where to go, etc vs trusting experts in the system to guide you. Even with top tier insurance from my employer. A lasting memory of that was in our prenatal class when they wanted the expecting mother’s to do a blood test to check for various risks. Queue much frantic checking…

Saying this at the risk of being downvoted but don't really care as I feel I have to let it out.

The U.K. healthcare system is the lowest level of medical service possible being made available with tax payers' contribution. The highest tax rate contributors as a result are getting the worst possible service. And most of such high rate tax payers either get some kind of medical insurance from their employer OR they end up buying their own in addition.

And unless one is prepared to go to Harley Street neighbourhood and pay close to around £500 per consultation, even with the additional so called private medical cover, one is still under the aegis of the N.H.S. Go there and you will see what appear to be "clientele" mostly from the Middle East as they probably can afford that sort of fee.

The overall benefit is really for the people who are contributing the least to the state. I understand there may surely be people who genuinely are unable to contribute to the state but then there are people who know and are for sure gaming the system (and this cuts across N.H.S and into other social services)

The results are dire in some cases for e.g. the Slough Borough Council very recently went bankrupt and this is within ten years of some alleged millions of pounds pumped into the community to help it grow.

The N.H.S. needs reform or else the way I see it, it will implode under its own weight.

People call out the U.S. health services being astronomically expensive. The fact of the matter is that medical services are expensive. Someone has to pay. An ambulance manned with two or three para-medics and life saving equipment doesn't come free, the fuel for the ambulance is not free, the paramedics were not trained for free. This is true whether it is in the U.S. or U.K. .In U.S. it is blatantly apparent as it is not a welfare state. In the U.K. it appears to be free to whom the service was provided in that moment but it is costing someone some very serious amount of money (i.e. the tax payer)

Move over from para-medics to doctors and I think U.K. medical schools are no less expensive than U.S. medical schools. It will still take an aspirant upwards of ten years to become a doctor be it U.S. or U.K. . And to an extent I think doctors on both sides earn pretty much the same and have very similar lifestyles after they gain specialisation or super-specialisation. Where is that money coming from ? Don't get me wrong.. I am not saying there is anything wrong with doctors making money.. they deserve it as they work REALLY HARD for it.

I have not heard from anyone in my close circle even being offered prenatal classes maybe it is available as a paid service under some expensive medical insurance plan but not via N.H.S. All N.H.S offer is access to a mid-wife and if one is unlucky (like I was in the case of my first born) it is not impossible that one won't get to see a real doctor during the delivery ! In case even a minor surgical procedure is required, and one is unlucky enough to be assigned to a Birth Centre rather than a maternity ward, be prepared to wait for hours.

In my experience, like I said, someone needs to take a serious look at N.H.S and it's workings and shake it down.

I mean if N.H.S is the world's best healthcare system (as it is touted to be, correct me if I am wrong) why for heavens sake does the Prime Minister has to go on national television and beg to people to "Save the N.H.S" during the initial phases of Covid. (This could lead the discussion in an entirely different direction but this was the same Prime Minister who was going to save 350 million Euros a week and pump them into the N.H.S)

The U.S. didn't do any better but then no one was anyways saying U.S. healthcare system was good to begin with.

Rant over.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#104
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally speaking (and I say this as a Brit who really likes the US, and Americans in general whenever I meet them). I haven't tried to move to the US because of the slightly distasteful situation in terms of education, healthcare and social security, car dependence, weirdly low holiday allowance, Foxnews, QAnon, an alarming gun lobby, and the current republican party in general is quite quite shocking to me in it'…

Hmm...I've worked in silicon valley (either there, or remote) for 25 years and have constantly run into brits. The holiday thing isn't quite what it seems because while brits will write down the 1/2 day they took off to go to the dentist, Americans do not. The racist/fascist thing is concerning, but the UK doesn't look so good these days either (Brexit, Boris, ...) US seems to be doing like Churchill said : Always Do…

Brexit is neither fascist nor (intrinsically) racist. Boris certainly has some racist ministers working for him, and I don't doubt that he's casually racist; but then most people are, to some extent.

I worked in the US for a year. I'll never go back. I saw too many black kids lying on their faces by the side of the highway, with cops standing over them pointing pistols at them. I never saw a carload of white kids getting that treatment. This was a daily experience (and I was only on the highway for about 10 minutes daily). It's completely normal. I was regularly told that when I leave my home, I shouldn't walk past Nth St., because that's a "bad neighbourhood" (i.e. black).

My experience of living in US was restricted to Richmond, VA. I've been to other parts, but not lived in them.

Sure, UK cops are racist too. But somehow the US cops seem to get a free pass - it's almost as if they're hired to be racists and bullies.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#105
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true and the need to be able to drive a car is also a hard stop to move to the USA. I had a job offer but they wanted me to move from the UK to the US. I didn't get the feeling you can live in the US without a car. Public transport is non-existent or very limited. Maybe my picture of the US or California is wrong

It's only really in some compact cities like SF or Manhattan with good public transport that you don't need a car. Car clubs are useful for local trips. But SV and other towns and cities you'd need one. I'd say in Manhattan having a car is a liability!

My feeling was that it's difficult to travel outside those areas?

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UKite here, active in the London fintech scene. Everything I say is based purely on my perception of the situation. Anecdotally, I see more people in this sector moving to places such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand than to the USA. I think there is a perception here that while salaries might be higher in the USA, there are hidden costs both financially and socially (such as health insurance payments, getting to…

Unless you are a Data engineer, or React Developer a career move to Australia is career suicide. Just go to LinkedIn and search the variety of jobs and salaries across all of Australia compared to the UK, it doesn't even come close. Salaries are one thing but it's also the variety off work that depresses me more. NZ would be even worse. I came to Australia and had a good four years but now want to leave after the hon…

> NZ would be even worse.

The difference between Aus and NZ is night and day... there's so much more choice for interesting work in Aus. However I think that's changing; in just ~2 years there seems to have been a huge increase in tech startups in NZ, due to VC finally arriving. I think there are easily 4x more NLP startups than before.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a strange place indeed but its development is almost a blueprint for many others in the capital: previously shitty, ran down places being converted into very expensive areas,yet they aren't very livable. I mean what one is supposed to do when they leave their flats that are minutes walk from King's Cross?

Sounds like they need a park? Are there markets at least?

The best street market in walking distance would probably be Chapel Street in Islington - about a 20-minute walk. There's a street market in Finsbury.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#108
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a really different experience. Sydney is full of jobs, and they're much higher paying than any I had in the UK. I never lived in London though.

What are you doing out of curiosity? I see lots of frontend React jobs, bunch of NodeJS jobs then lots of Python/Spark jobs. Full-time probably around $150-160k average or contracting $1k a day. Outside of that I see C# or Java using Spring Boot for I don't mind Java but the stuff out here I have done and used is so meh, Spring for everything when there's so much more than Spring. Java 17 was released last week and h…

> Java 17 was released last week and half the places have only just started using 11

That's not Australia, that's just Java. Most companies who bet on Java 10 years ago did so because it was a stable and conservative platform; they were not going to accelerate their development practices just because the vendor started telling them to.

Most friends and colleagues in Java shops are all in the same boat: they're barely done migrating from 8 to 11 and they don't really know when they'll move further (although it should be easier). Maybe they have the occasional greenfield project on a newer release, but the bread and butter is always on the old workhorses.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#109
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not surprised the Googles moved to Kings Cross now its gentrified. I really dont understand why people want to work there. Its a really expensive shithole still. Granted there are now lots of new offices full of tech workers, but thats not a selling point. Facebook and google moved out of soho for kings bloody cross. I suspect the real reason is that its the only site left big enough to put multi-thousand person of…

You are labelling these locations as a 'shithole' without offering any real perspective. The urban regeneration, around the Google site and Kings X has changed the area considerably to shed its gritty image, even if it still lacks some soul. The transport links might be the key factor, but it is also situated in proximity to world leading universities and academic institutions (UCL/Birkbeck/SOAS/UoW/LSE), notwithstan…

Soho is pretty much equidistant to UCL, and is closer to kings. Everything is close in london.

My issue is this, Kings Cross is basically what someone thinks a "tech hub" should feel like, rather than what will naturally pop up over time. My company is moving from Soho, which is a nice vibrant (now sadly diminished) cultural center, to kings cross.

Everything is private land in kingscross, which means that the local council has no real control over what happens there. This means no real chance for markets, or passion shops that only have a tiny amount of capital to start up. Soho has three market pitches, shoreditch has at least 2.

Kingscross has none, and if they did, they would be charging eye watering pitch fees. This means that there is almost no chance of new local stall popping up and building out a presence. (Unless mummy & daddy provide cash) Which means that all the shops are both expensive and "boutique"

Shoreditch on the other hand was a working class, vibrant community. Most of the locals, barring the oldies who have council houses have left. When industry started leaving, and the artists started moving in, there was a time of creativity(90s early 2000s). Things looked scummy because there was no money, not because it was the USP of the area. The USP was it was cheap.

Now there is loads of money, a decimated local community, but everything is kept in a state of shabbiness because people think that's what made shoreditch special. Its a zoo for people to pretend to be working class and or cool, when in practice they are neither.

Re: The last days of Silicon Roundabout

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£100K+ ($135k) is common enough in fintech, and lately smaller tech startups have been offering that kind of salary. I don't know where those aggregation sites get their data, but it doesn't match my experience. Those same sites will say the average in SF is well below what anyone I know is earning also. I would note salaries are not very transparent in the UK, and most higher end job adverts don't even indicate a ra…

FAANG'll pay $300k (£220k) (all-in) in SF, so £100K is low, even if it's much higher than the local average.

FAANG in London also pays £220k+ and closer to £400k+ total yearly comp for management roles. Once you have one FAANG on the CV you are going to have no problem getting £250k+ total comp packages from mid-tier fintechs and similar outfits in the city and 300-400 is available if you have some management experience. This may be an anomaly, but it is a sellers market right now in the UK tech scene -- lots of big funding rounds closing as the market remains frothy and capital frantically hunts around for something to invest in, so a lot of companies are competing for a smaller pool of talent.
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