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Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

treasury.gov

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Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#231

Post by jamesaguilar »

olefoo wrote: post #212
jamesaguilar wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that there is a fair amount of criticism from many economists on the book's analysis. It may be worthwhile to include those on your reading list as well. Here are just a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine#Criticism

Also remember that most economists are wrong. If you read any economist who cannot explain the works of John Maynard Keynes in lucid detail (regardless of whether they agree with him) you are dealing with someone who is an "authoritative fraud". So pretty much the entire Chicago School.

I think you're making the classic mistake of assuming people who disagree with you are stupid. Specifically, it seems fantastically unlikely that the average Chicago school academic would be unable to explain in detail Keynes and his theses.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#232

Post by gareim »

burgerbrain wrote: post #223
gareim wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Units (that's what they're called) are passed back to our tables the schoolday before we turn them in (she makes us turn them in 3 days before that so she can spot check them in for some reason). I was talking to her while they were being passed back and by the time I get back, it's nowhere to be found and 5 minutes later, class ends. Turns out that my friend had grabbed hers to take home but accidentally grabbed…

Shit happens. You're going to have to learn to deal with that.

No, shit doesn't just happen. If you get sued for copyright infringement cause someone else broke into your network and downloaded Harry Potter and you LOSE, well, "shit happens... deal with that" right? NO, when the world isn't fair, you don't roll over and say "Shit happens". You change it and make the world a little bit better. Isn't that the goal of all entrepreneurs? And isn't that the goal of HN then? We want the world to improve and leaving an incompetent teacher in the classroom goes against every thread about Khan Academy or improving the educational system. You want me to be wrong so bad that you've forgotten the principles that HN is about. Entrepreneurship is about making the world BETTER while making some money off of it (or am I naive? I suppose maybe I'm too optimistic) and rolling over is not the right thing to do.

P.S. I dealt with it the best I could. I signed up for summer school then had a talk with the head of the science department who then investigated it. It was revealed to us that the physics teacher would be fired, but then because we couldn't find any replacement for her on short notice and because the science head was about to take maternity leave, the matter was dropped.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#233

Post by algoshift »

redthrowaway wrote: post #189
algoshift wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, please...

>Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html EDIT: Grandparent should read "use asterisks for empahsis". Sorry for the brainfart.

So...rather than focus on the substance of the post and say something intelligent about a serious subject matter you choose to critique style.

What if I actually wanted to SHOUT?

And, on top of that, you down-vote me for style without knowing my intent rather than on the substance of the post, which is what the voting is supposed to be about.

Have a good one pal.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#234

Post by asg »

tlear wrote: post #119
asg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it can cause inflation, but it is incontrovertible that governments can always replay local currency debt by issuing currency (except the EURO, where priting money has been offloaded to an external entity). Which is why sovereign debt in local currency is always the risk free credit, by definition. And the US is in the enviable position where, due to the nature of the dollar being the global reference currency,…

Yes they can.. unless an angry mob whose life savings they just stole does not overthrow them. There are limits on how much you can do this and stay in power, they don't figure in the economics calculations but they do exist in real life.

Yes, in the long term, printing money will lead to an inflationary spiral. The expectation of that will cause higher interest rates. But the fact remains, that in an emergency, it is a possibility. And the possibility of creates greater safety/willingness to lend.

Moody's in its latest assessment says:

"The global role of the dollar, which underpins continued demand for U.S. dollar assets, .... provides unmatched access to financing, meaning that the U.S. government can support higher debt levels than other governments"

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/moodys-why-the-...

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#235

Post by burgerbrain »

gareim wrote: post #232
burgerbrain wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit happens. You're going to have to learn to deal with that.

No, shit doesn't just happen. If you get sued for copyright infringement cause someone else broke into your network and downloaded Harry Potter and you LOSE, well, "shit happens... deal with that" right? NO, when the world isn't fair, you don't roll over and say "Shit happens". You change it and make the world a little bit better. Isn't that the goal of all entrepreneurs? And isn't that the goal of HN then? We want t…

Shit most empirically does happen. If you worry yourself to much about it you're going to have one hell of a life.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#236

Post by bubbleRefuge »

asg wrote: post #234
tlear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they can.. unless an angry mob whose life savings they just stole does not overthrow them. There are limits on how much you can do this and stay in power, they don't figure in the economics calculations but they do exist in real life.

Yes, in the long term, printing money will lead to an inflationary spiral. The expectation of that will cause higher interest rates. But the fact remains, that in an emergency, it is a possibility. And the possibility of creates greater safety/willingness to lend. Moody's in its latest assessment says: "The global role of the dollar, which underpins continued demand for U.S. dollar assets, .... provides unmatched acc…

You have to define what printing money means? The term doesn't apply to modern fiat money. And naturally I should define what modern fiat money is. But in a broad sense the government should continue issuing currency( by increasing spending -preferably on infrastructure- or reducing taxes) which increases aggregate demand until spare capacity ( which includes unemployment) is exhausted in the economy.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#237

Post by olefoo »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #231
olefoo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also remember that most economists are wrong. If you read any economist who cannot explain the works of John Maynard Keynes in lucid detail (regardless of whether they agree with him) you are dealing with someone who is an "authoritative fraud". So pretty much the entire Chicago School.

I think you're making the classic mistake of assuming people who disagree with you are stupid. Specifically, it seems fantastically unlikely that the average Chicago school academic would be unable to explain in detail Keynes and his theses.

Actually, in this case, it's not that I think they are stupid; merely that they have lost touch with reality. An economist who denies the role of government in macroeconomics for ideological reasons may be quite bright and may be able to construct quite fearsome explanations for his positions, but he is deliberately ignoring both the reality of the present and the lessons of history.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#238

Post by jamesaguilar »

olefoo wrote: post #237
jamesaguilar wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making the classic mistake of assuming people who disagree with you are stupid. Specifically, it seems fantastically unlikely that the average Chicago school academic would be unable to explain in detail Keynes and his theses.

Actually, in this case, it's not that I think they are stupid; merely that they have lost touch with reality. An economist who denies the role of government in macroeconomics for ideological reasons may be quite bright and may be able to construct quite fearsome explanations for his positions, but he is deliberately ignoring both the reality of the present and the lessons of history.

I doubt that you can find me an anarchist member of the Chicago school. They all recognize a role for government, the debate is over how large and where that role is. The people you are bothered by are a straw figment of your imagination.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#239

Post by olefoo »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #238
olefoo wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in this case, it's not that I think they are stupid; merely that they have lost touch with reality. An economist who denies the role of government in macroeconomics for ideological reasons may be quite bright and may be able to construct quite fearsome explanations for his positions, but he is deliberately ignoring both the reality of the present and the lessons of history.

I doubt that you can find me an anarchist member of the Chicago school. They all recognize a role for government, the debate is over how large and where that role is. The people you are bothered by are a straw figment of your imagination.

The deadliest anarchists wear silk suits and pocket squares and do more damage to more human lives with a fountain pen than a thousand men throwing molotov cocktails could even dream of.

Re: Just the Facts: S&P's $2 Trillion Mistake

#240

Post by CWuestefeld »

asg wrote: post #234
tlear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they can.. unless an angry mob whose life savings they just stole does not overthrow them. There are limits on how much you can do this and stay in power, they don't figure in the economics calculations but they do exist in real life.

Yes, in the long term, printing money will lead to an inflationary spiral. The expectation of that will cause higher interest rates. But the fact remains, that in an emergency, it is a possibility. And the possibility of creates greater safety/willingness to lend. Moody's in its latest assessment says: "The global role of the dollar, which underpins continued demand for U.S. dollar assets, .... provides unmatched acc…

No, an increase in the money supply directly leads to inflation (other things being equal, notably the velocity of money).

It's right there in the terminology: money supply. What happens when the quantity supplied of a good increases? With a constant quantity demanded, the price goes down. So it is here: if the quantity of money supplied increases, the value of that money decreases.

Thus, paying one's debts with inflated currency means that you're giving yourself a discount off the amount you owed. And that creates lower safety/willingness to lend.

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