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Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

theatlantic.com

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Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#71

Post by chownie »

vibrato2 wrote: post #22
drooby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150k vaccine deaths? Source please.

I added a source but hacker news isn’t fond of analysis or thinking in regards to political issues; it was flagged.

It might be getting flagged because the author of the PDF started out openly with the objective of linking deaths to vaccines. That or that it's not an objective document, it reads like a hit piece on vaccines with shaky evidence and random unsourced testimonials.

When you read PDF with that in mind, the author's repeated pointing to the massive jump in unverified self-report stats on VAERS (right after the president of the United States cast aspersions on vaccinations to boot) doesn't really feel that compelling.

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #69
mgh2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more data, but the silent generation did not seem to be that concerned during the cold war. I think this article points to a culture shift and the success of liberal pro-choice propaganda if anything.

> but the silent generation did not seem to be that concerned during the cold war. The silent generation didn't grow up expecting reproductive choices. And that's ignoring the fact that nuclear war was just theoretical. Catastrophic climate change is actually happening. > the success for liberal pro-choice propaganda if anything. Giving people access to birth control and condoms is propaganda?

> And that's ignoring the fact that nuclear war was just theoretical.

Not after Hiroshima, it wasn't.

I would say that the dread of nuclear war was greater than the dread of climate change. You think we could be hosed in 100 years? Thinking we could all be dead in 15 minutes is... different.

And the fear seemed more palpable at the time. I saw the way my dad moved when the Emergency Warning System came on the TV. He doesn't react like that to climate change warnings...

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#73

Post by foundron »

rank0 wrote: post #70
CarelessExpert wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your marginal, insignificant impact on the climate is enough to prevent you from having kids, then you probably never really wanted them anyways. Or they have different values than you. Shocking, right? > Why should anybody give up kids but keep their iPhones, AC, avocados, and software engineering jobs? > You might feel differently when you’re older. Ahh, there it is. That moral superiority that oh-so-often exu…

Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. I DO however, get annoyed when I see people present themselves as some kind of martyr simply for being child free. Those same folks on this forum gladly spew out carbon in pursuit of building a new ML model, cryptocurrency, or unnecessary startup cash-grab. > I'm 42. Marri…

Choosing not to have kids is still an uncommon stance. Are they really presenting themselves as martyrs, or just trying to normalise an unpopular idea that has merits? Is it helpful to dismiss them like that? Maybe they're not the same ones doing high carbon pursuits?

If it's really not a big deal, then we can just accept others' differences without getting annoyed.

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#75

Post by rsj_hn »

Rijek33 wrote: post #4

Highly religious people like Mormons and Amish have 3 kids on average, same for highly religious societies in Africa and Asia. Fun times ahead. Ironically from a darwinian point of view religion is a great adaptation for fitness

Healthy attitudes are the ones that promote life and human flourishing, period.

By definition, nature always purges unhealthy attitudes from the gene pool. And the biggest threat to health in the modern era is not global warming, but people becoming hysterically moralistic about what are complex issues that we have little understanding of. Every purchase, every job, every interaction is judged on some creepy moralistic lense by those who would make the Spanish inquisition look nuanced in contrast to their own nursery-rhyme fanaticism.

Some have become so absolutely certain of their own self-righteous stance to the point of sabotaging themselves and removing themselves from the gene pool. Thank goodness we will be rid of these attitudes in a few generations, and through no violence on the part of the sane. We can simply let them line up and drink the koolaid while the rest of us go about our pragmatic lives, living humbly in understanding that we don't really know what is right or wrong unless it has been proven to promote human flourishing over hundreds of generations. Everything else is speculative and prone to error.

Note that this is not to say people shouldn't be concerned, from a technical or engineering point of view, with various problems facing us, but when you cross the line to turning everything into a hysterical moral stance, that's when knowledge turns into blind faith and becomes toxic.

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#76

Post by CarelessExpert »

rank0 wrote: post #70
CarelessExpert wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your marginal, insignificant impact on the climate is enough to prevent you from having kids, then you probably never really wanted them anyways. Or they have different values than you. Shocking, right? > Why should anybody give up kids but keep their iPhones, AC, avocados, and software engineering jobs? > You might feel differently when you’re older. Ahh, there it is. That moral superiority that oh-so-often exu…

Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. I DO however, get annoyed when I see people present themselves as some kind of martyr simply for being child free. Those same folks on this forum gladly spew out carbon in pursuit of building a new ML model, cryptocurrency, or unnecessary startup cash-grab. > I'm 42. Marri…

> Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children.

And the difference is the OP literally was just talking about themselves and their own choices. Go read their comment. They even went out of their way to say "For me, it's practicing what I preach, because I view climate change as the most pressing existential threat to our species" and finished their comment by stating "If you disagree... more power to you! It's your decision to make, and I mean that earnestly."

Never once do they deign to make moral statements about anyone else. It's purely about their decision and why they've made it.

The only way to take offense to that is to look for it.

You, by contrast, proceeded to attack the person's beliefs, going so far as to say of their desire to have children: "you probably never really wanted them anyways."

As for this...

> For the record, I am 26

I'd wait until at least your 30s before you start telling people what they might or might not feel when they get older...

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#77

Post by rank0 »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #76
rank0 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. I DO however, get annoyed when I see people present themselves as some kind of martyr simply for being child free. Those same folks on this forum gladly spew out carbon in pursuit of building a new ML model, cryptocurrency, or unnecessary startup cash-grab. > I'm 42. Marri…

> Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. And the difference is the OP literally was just talking about themselves and their own choices. Go read their comment. They even went out of their way to say " For me , it's practicing what I preach, because I view climate change as the most pressing existential threat t…

> Never once do they deign to make moral statements about anyone else. It's purely about their decision and why they've made it.

I just straight up disagree here. The implication here is that they're making a significant personal sacrifice in an attempt to save the earth. In reality, they already don't want children and this is a convenient way to present themselves in a positive moral light. You're leaving out the part where OP says he doesn't really want kids that much.

"I have other justificiations, too -- in terms of life priorities, I simply consider children as "nice to have". For someone on the fence like me, this is enough."

This is pretty far away from someone who wants to start a family. Children are just "nice to have?"

> The only way to take offense to that is to look for it.

You could say the same thing about my response to OP.

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#78

Post by [deleted] »

rank0 wrote: post #77
CarelessExpert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. And the difference is the OP literally was just talking about themselves and their own choices. Go read their comment. They even went out of their way to say " For me , it's practicing what I preach, because I view climate change as the most pressing existential threat t…

> Never once do they deign to make moral statements about anyone else. It's purely about their decision and why they've made it. I just straight up disagree here. The implication here is that they're making a significant personal sacrifice in an attempt to save the earth. In reality, they already don't want children and this is a convenient way to present themselves in a positive moral light. You're leaving out the p…

[deleted]

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#79

Post by [deleted] »

rank0 wrote: post #77
CarelessExpert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. And the difference is the OP literally was just talking about themselves and their own choices. Go read their comment. They even went out of their way to say " For me , it's practicing what I preach, because I view climate change as the most pressing existential threat t…

> Never once do they deign to make moral statements about anyone else. It's purely about their decision and why they've made it. I just straight up disagree here. The implication here is that they're making a significant personal sacrifice in an attempt to save the earth. In reality, they already don't want children and this is a convenient way to present themselves in a positive moral light. You're leaving out the p…

[deleted]

Re: Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change

#80

Post by rank0 »

foundron wrote: post #73
rank0 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've come off the wrong way here. I do not believe that either party can claim the moral high ground for their decision on raising children. I DO however, get annoyed when I see people present themselves as some kind of martyr simply for being child free. Those same folks on this forum gladly spew out carbon in pursuit of building a new ML model, cryptocurrency, or unnecessary startup cash-grab. > I'm 42. Marri…

Choosing not to have kids is still an uncommon stance. Are they really presenting themselves as martyrs, or just trying to normalise an unpopular idea that has merits? Is it helpful to dismiss them like that? Maybe they're not the same ones doing high carbon pursuits? If it's really not a big deal, then we can just accept others' differences without getting annoyed.

> Maybe they're not the same ones doing high carbon pursuits?

It's possible but I seriously doubt it. Just being on this forum tells me that OP has likely emitted more carbon than almost every other human in the history of our species. The startup space openly celebrates carbon intensive profit chasing behavior.

How can we have it both ways? We've gotta reduce our personal carbon footprint but also let's create tech startups to get rich. It's just a bit silly imo.

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