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The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

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Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#181

Post by toast0 »

tombert wrote: post #158
toast0 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at your trend, you've got $500 laptop / 2 year, or $2000 laptop / 5 year, which reduces to $250 laptop / year vs $400 laptop / year. Getting low cost laptops isn't necessarily a worse financial outcome, although it depends on how fast the processor updates are moving; when a 2020 intel cpu is about the same as a 2015 intel cpu, it would probably have been better to pay a little more in 2015 for a faster one;…

Yeah, I've actually done this math too, though I don't think it's quite this simple. When a laptop started falling apart, I usually tried to just put up with it until I couldn't. For example, I used to have an Asus computer whose plastic surrounding the screen decided to start coming detached from the monitor flap. This made the laptop substantially more fragile and annoying to use, and after a certain point I tried…

> I bought an expensive Macbook, and I never had any issues outside of the inevitable "moores law" depreciation.

I hope that keeps going. I used a macbook for work for almost 8 years, and they did OK, but I had one that decided not to take external power and the hard drive wasn't removable, thankfully I noticed it wasn't charging while it was near full so I could pull a backup to a spare work hand. And then there was the year where iTunes would have a 25% chance of spewing high volume digital noise at me instead of playing music. I guess that was a software problem because it went away with the next major OS X release, but no useful forum contents. I think there was something else bothersome too, but not sure anymore.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#182

Post by Groxx »

asddubs wrote: post #68

>I've bought a new Thinkpad almost every year since 2006. Why? I bought a thinkpad and used it for 7 years. Who needs a new laptop every year? Especially these days Sorry I know it's besides the point of the article but it stood out to me

This is covered in the article.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#183

Post by bogwog »

filleokus wrote: post #172

This isn’t a laptop for me, I want different trade offs. But I’m really excited to see it enter the space, and hopefully they will become a viable market contender. That might both satisfy the demand often expressed, by people like us, for more upgradability/repair ability and make other manufacturers steal some of their best ideas.

What kind of trade offs? The only thing I can think of is that you want extreme performance, like those "VR-ready" gaming laptops.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#184

Post by smoldesu »

fsflover wrote: post #161
TOMDM wrote: post #28

These laptops would be an instant buy from me if I could get a new AMD chip instead of the Intel CPU's.

You cannot neutralize and disable the PSP spying module in AMD processors, while in Intel ones you can do that with ME: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Assert... .

As much as I love speculating about backdoors and NSA wiretapping, I seriously doubt these MEs are malicious. At this point, managing a modern x86 is tough work, especially if you want to run virtualization, complex threading and maintain high efficiency. It makes total sense that there are mandatory supervisor chips at this point, and without any evidence that these chips are "phoning home," I simply have to assume that it's purpose is virtualized KVM for remote management. Worst case scenario, the CIA wakes up my laptop while I'm asleep, big whoop.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#185

Post by zepto »

GordonS wrote: post #89
epistasis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the other reason is that customers don't care either. I certainly don't. The last desktop build I made 5 years ago hasn't had a single component changed in that entire time.

It's not just about upgrading components, but also about having more choice during initial specification. It's a real PITA trying to find laptops that have almost everything you want, and inevitably you need to make multiple compromises. And it's also about replacing broken components without having to ditch the whole laptop. I'm really excited about how Framework could potentially shake up the whole industry!

> I'm really excited about how Framework could potentially shake up the whole industry!

It won’t. The industry used to be like that back in the day before Apple proved that most people don’t want too many choices.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#186

Post by xvector »

lucb1e wrote: post #149
xvector wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Framework has half the battery life of similarly sized alternatives. No one was lying to you.

From comparative tests or from vendor specs? (Genuine question, I do not know which you are referring to)

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light...

Scroll down to the battery section

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#187

Post by slabity »

topspin wrote: post #33
tombert wrote: post #25

It feels like for years we were constantly told by these corporations "it's impossible to have slim, tiny laptops and make them customizable", and I guess at some level I believed that, and just accepted that laptops with upgradable components were a thing of the past. After seeing the framework, I'm more than a little annoyed that I fell for this. They proved you can have a slim, clean laptop that's somewhat modular…

Linus (the "tech tips" one) said something that sticks in my mind: "The only reason other companies can't do this - and Framework proved it - is because they don't care."

Another quote from Linus that's relevant:

"Imagine being an engineer at a company at Apple, and it being your job to design the mechanism that makes it so that machine cannot start up unless the chassis is fully sealed. Apple spent actual fucking money making sure that product would not work unless it is in the exact chassis they shipped it in."

That goes beyond not caring.

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#189

Post by FredFS456 »

xvector wrote: post #133
tombert wrote: post #25

It feels like for years we were constantly told by these corporations "it's impossible to have slim, tiny laptops and make them customizable", and I guess at some level I believed that, and just accepted that laptops with upgradable components were a thing of the past. After seeing the framework, I'm more than a little annoyed that I fell for this. They proved you can have a slim, clean laptop that's somewhat modular…

The Framework has half the battery life of similarly sized alternatives. No one was lying to you.

Could you provide some sources to back up that claim? My first choice for laptop reviews (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-I...) did not show that to be the case

Re: The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used

#190

Post by smoldesu »

collinvandyck76 wrote: post #84
TOMDM wrote: post #28

These laptops would be an instant buy from me if I could get a new AMD chip instead of the Intel CPU's.

Same here but for fan noise. Since I've gotten the m1 macbook air, I don't think I can go back to a laptop that runs hot and needs a fan. In the event that I must get a non-m1 laptop, I can definitely see myself buying the framework laptop and putting ubuntu on it.

It's a shame ARM isn't quite a first-class desktop architecture quite yet. I'd probably use one if my software ran on it. Otherwise, I figure in 10-15 years, when it is "fully featured," the architecture will have already been usurped by RISC-V.
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