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iOS 15

apple.com

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Re: iOS 15

#341

Post by beezischillin »

iosquestion wrote: post #31
BryanBeshore wrote: post #5

For anyone wondering, this was supposed to be the release where Apple could scan your photos for child abuse. This was delayed for this release: https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-delays-child-abuse-phot...

I wonder if upgrading to iOS 15 will increase the chance of receiving this spyware when they do roll it out? I mean 15.X - 15.Y will likely occur automatically while the phone is connected to WiFi and charging.. but 14 to 15 should require user approval, meaning we should be safe as long as we never upgrade >14..?

Considering that they got the algo reverse engineered from 14 (it is already in the code running on all those devices) there seems to be a possibility that a security update could bring it online on 14 as well. Just my speculation but it seems plausible.

Re: iOS 15

#342

Post by nebula8804 »

dnissley wrote: post #250
danudey wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my iPhone 13 Pro, and there was an option right there on the page to trade in my existing hardware. I chose yes, and, because I bought that phone with my same apple account which I also have linked to the hardware, my phone showed up right there as an option. I tapped on it, said yes it's in good condition, and got like $530 CDN off my purchase. Could I sell my phone for more than $530? Yes. Is it worth my t…

Maybe you don't have the option in Canada, but Swappa has solved the sell-it-yourself problem in the US.

How does Swappa handle fraud? ie. saying the phone is broken and then shipping back some other device to the seller?

Re: iOS 15

#343

Post by throwoutway »

GeekyBear wrote: post #213
KennyBlanken wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should technology so bad it needs thirty mulligans have the power to completely destroy your life? And exactly how are they obligated to keep those policies? Answer: they aren't. There isn't some law saying '30 hits before we report you', and Apple is certainly going to drop the number as the public gets more used to the idea of CSAM. They'll keep dropping it until the news articles start coming out about how it'…

Again, Google and Microsoft have already been scanning everything on your account for the past decade without any such protections against incriminating users based on false positives.

I don’t think that Google’s & Microsoft’s behavior should justify new behavior. Or as the adage goes, Do three wrongs make a right?

Re: iOS 15

#344

Post by KennyBlanken »

GeekyBear wrote: post #213
KennyBlanken wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should technology so bad it needs thirty mulligans have the power to completely destroy your life? And exactly how are they obligated to keep those policies? Answer: they aren't. There isn't some law saying '30 hits before we report you', and Apple is certainly going to drop the number as the public gets more used to the idea of CSAM. They'll keep dropping it until the news articles start coming out about how it'…

Again, Google and Microsoft have already been scanning everything on your account for the past decade without any such protections against incriminating users based on false positives.

Again: scanning my cloud account is not the same thing as scanning my --private devices-- which have no apple cloud sync enabled.

Which part of "what I store on my device is not even remotely the business of the manufacturer of the device" do you not understand?

Re: iOS 15

#345

Post by KennyBlanken »

0x6862 wrote: post #320
duped wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More that I need a smart phone for work and life but there are no viable alternatives to iOS and Android, and I trust Apple slightly more than Google not to spy on me and use it against me

On many Android devices you can flash an AOSP RON which is a very viable alternative

They're not a very viable alternative unless you plan on never trying to run any major/popular apps, because they all use Google Play Services APIs/libraries/toolboxes.

Install Google Play Services and Google gets whatever info they want from your phone.

Re: iOS 15

#346

Post by WorldMaker »

philwelch wrote: post #283
jduckles wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only encrypted when on iCloud, not when on your device. The hashes are computed on your device.

So how do they capture the unencrypted images from my device for "review"?

That's why the CSAM scanner is on your device. It computes the hashes in place on then unencrypted images before uploading encrypted copies to iCloud.

That's why from some perspectives it is a net privacy win versus Google/Microsoft's similar tools that require them to have decryption backdoor keys on their clouds to process these CSAM requests and other FBI/TLA/et al warrants. Apple is saying they don't have backdoor keys at all on iCloud and if they are forced to do CSAM scanning it has to be on device, without leaving the device to have access to the unencrypted images. Only if you hit the reporting threshold (supposedly 30+ hash violations) would it also encrypt copies to a reporting database on iCloud (and again only if you were uploading those photos to iCloud in the first place).

Re: iOS 15

#347

Post by WorldMaker »

sneak wrote: post #175
philwelch wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they review the data if your iCloud photos are E2E encrypted?

iCloud photos are not E2E encrypted. Apple has announced no plans whatsoever to make them such. Apple, their sysadmins, and the government can see every photo you have in iCloud. Apple had plans (and, an inside source tells me, an implementation) to do E2E for iCloud Backup, but the FBI asked them not to, so they scrapped it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... This undermines the credibil…

If their end goal is to go full E2E encryption for iCloud Backup, but they have to be able to prove to the FBI first that they are doing "due diligence" to meet warrant needs then of course device-side CSAM scanning is a prelude for being able to turn on E2E for iCloud data!

The fact that the FBI stopped them once before and they've been working to build active solutions to what the FBI tells them their needs are should be evidence alone that E2E is their goal. It seems pretty credible to me.

Re: iOS 15

#348

Post by GeekyBear »

privacyisntdead wrote: post #340
GeekyBear wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, Google and Microsoft have already been scanning everything on your account for the past decade without any such protections against incriminating users based on false positives.

Account is not the same as your device

Apple isn't scanning the contents of your device. They are discussing scanning content you upload to iCloud Photos.

So, yes. It's the same.

Re: iOS 15

#350

Post by philwelch »

WorldMaker wrote: post #346
philwelch wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do they capture the unencrypted images from my device for "review"?

That's why the CSAM scanner is on your device . It computes the hashes in place on then unencrypted images before uploading encrypted copies to iCloud. That's why from some perspectives it is a net privacy win versus Google/Microsoft's similar tools that require them to have decryption backdoor keys on their clouds to process these CSAM requests and other FBI/TLA/et al warrants. Apple is saying they don't have backdo…

So, again, how do they review those images? Does Apple have the key to the reporting database?
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