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Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

economist.com

261–270 of 435 posts

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#261
post #6

Not building new nuclear power plants in the last 30 years was a major mistake, in terms of energy supply security as well as CO2 emissions.

French generation is ~70% nuclear (10% wind/solar) and German is ~10% (~40% wind/solar). Yet their prices track each other closely. So I think this explanation is too simplistic. Possibly there are large interconnects between the French and German grids levelling out wholesale prices, but my assumption is that they cannot carry enough power for this imagined scenario where nuclear makes a big difference.

That's because market prices are what they are, they don't depend on whether it's "gas electricity" or "nuclear electricity".

Now, if you produce electricity by burning gas that you import and gas prices go through the roof then your production costs follow and your stuck.

In the meantime, production costs of nuclear plants have not moved at all. Which makes controlling consumer prices much more doable and less costly, for instance, you can sell that electricity with improved profit margins (and France does export a lot of electricity).

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#262

They've been signalling a 40%+ gas price increase for the winter in the news here in Romania. For the poor people and pensioners who often live month to month this is tragic news. They don't know how they'll make it when they'll have to choose between food and medicine or heat.

What percentage of living costs is gas normally during winter there? A 40% increase in 3% of your expenses isn't a big deal, but if it's 30% that would really hurt...

Really depends on the type of house you live in. Typical heating costs for 50m^2 apartments in “Khrushchevka” type buildings (probably the dominant housing situation across most post soviet states) should be around 50 Euros per month this heating season in Lithuania. Average state pension is around 400 euros, so on average, heating should be 12.5% of that.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that it's more, but I clicked through to read the article expecting something insane like the $9/kWh rates in Texas earlier this year.

Texan here, that's the wholesale rate. Only people on wholesale plans (now banned I believe) would have paid that. I paid 9c per kWh during the whole ordeal while wholesale pegged at $9 per kWh. My price is fixed at 8.9c per kWh for 2 years.

Sure, consumers are normally shielded from the wholesale market by regulation or contract (although not necessarily in Texas, as some learned), but I'm pretty sure the graph posted by the GP is the day-ahead wholesale market for some jurisdiction.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#265

For the UK it's a tripple whammy right now: high gas prices, a fire at an interchange to France and with Brexit they left the EU’s internal energy market. As a result the prices for electricity are skyrocketing at certain times of the day. That's what weekend pricing looked yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/U275C5r.png

I mean, £1/kWh is pretty high, but it's not totally outrageous and it appears to have been capped by some kind of regulatory limit. 42¢/kWh is the standard retail price in California during peak demand hours, and that's not a huge difference.

You pay $0.42/kWh real time peak price in CA on a normal day? That's an absolutely bonkers number to me. Normal peak real time prices in Texas are like $0.12/kWh

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#266
post #6

Not building new nuclear power plants in the last 30 years was a major mistake, in terms of energy supply security as well as CO2 emissions.

Exactly. Rosatom trolled EU on twitter:

"So apparently you cannot build your entire electricity system on weather-dependent energy sources. Who would have thought?"

https://twitter.com/RosatomGlobal/status/1438395621648572418

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#267
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also because combustion turbines are a seriously nice technology. Heat exchangers are expensive. A NPP transmits heat across many fluid/solid interfaces: fuel rods to coolant, primary to second coolant heat exchanger, secondary loop to steam generators, and steam to cooling water in the condenser after the turbines. A simple cycle combustion turbine avoids all that. Even a combined cycle power plant puts much les…

Correction: I added an extra loop there. Silly -- the primary loop drives the steam generators. I may have been thinking of MSRs, which have a sterile salt loop between the steam generator and the fuel bearing salt.

Also worth noting that Boiling Water Reactors (about half the current fleet) eliminate the steam generators and secondary loop, at the cost of increased nuclear and mechanical complexity in the reactor.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#268
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do wonder how much our gas import from Russia is helping us keep the peace. And keeping Russians and their "dominion" oppressed. Just shows how morally bankrupt Europe is, and with how smug Europe is that is really cringey.

I'm Russian and I do not consider myself "oppressed". Stop living in your bubble of fake news.

Opressed or not, you are a troll. I scrolled through your history here and most of your messages are political BS. A lot of it - lies.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, £1/kWh is pretty high, but it's not totally outrageous and it appears to have been capped by some kind of regulatory limit. 42¢/kWh is the standard retail price in California during peak demand hours, and that's not a huge difference.

You pay $0.42/kWh real time peak price in CA on a normal day? That's an absolutely bonkers number to me. Normal peak real time prices in Texas are like $0.12/kWh

Yes, we are talking about California not Texas, not unexpected.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#270
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure nuclear is all good until something goes wrong and you need 30k years to inhabit the area again, but that can't ever happen...oh wait. You need to weigh cons as much as pros.

We also need to be using up to date data about reactor designs that are safer rather than the older and more dangerous ones (eg FAST, slow wave).

Although I'm generally pro more nuclear, this argument isn't massively compelling to me. The failed reactors of the past were considered safe when they were built.
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