Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are a net exporter because they have to sell their wind/solar power for cheap when they have too much of it, but are then forced to buy nuclear/hydro power from their neighbors when their coal power plants are not enough to compensate the ramp-up in demand and/or the lack of wind/sun. France could be electrically self-sufficient, Germany couldn't -- whether they would depend on FR/BE/NL/... being irrelevant.
France exports a lot of nuclear power on nights and weekends while importing power during peak demand. Their actually further from self sufficiency. It gets more complicated on a euro per kWh basis as Frances nuclear is much more expensive so economically their losing money even if it looks better in terms of cash flows.
Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
191–200 of 435 posts
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#192Americans have much higher salaries, yet, gas prices are much much lower than in germany.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear is just as bad in terms of following demand the capacity factor is at best 90% but involves weeks of downtime for refueling etc. Worse the economics only work out when production is kept close to 100% when available limiting adoption in a wider electric grid. France dealt with sub 70% capacity factors even with massive exports that’s roughly a 0.9/0.7 = 30% price hike per kWh. You can use batteries to level o…
All nuclear power plants in Germany are capable to be operated in load-follow mode, see: > https://www.ktg.org/ktg-wAssets/docs/fg-bet-rph-lastfolgebet... Also, nuclear power was never subsidized in Germany: > https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/14/080/1408084.pdf (page 16, answer 27)
In 1998 the Atomic Energy Act established the maximum insurance liability of nuclear insurer at about €2.5 billion; for damages above that cap the Federal Government is liable according to § 34 of the Atomic Energy Act. That’s a German nuclear subsidy, they have a few.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#194- There's a difference between consumer grid prices and the prices on the energy market. The former are stable and also include a lot of taxes. In most countries it is actually mostly taxes. The latter go up and down depending on who is able to supply. Consumer prices are of course affected but it's less dramatic when 25% of your rate becomes 40% more expensive.
- There are no blackouts worth mentioning. It's not so much that there is a shortage as that there is price pressure on the existing supply because of raised cost. Mostly this boils down to gas cost going up recently for various geopolitical reasons. So, this is not like the situation in Texas earlier this year. Not at all. Nobody is sitting in the dark or freezing.
- Europe has an interconnected grid; so prices are affected everywhere. Places with cheap over production are exporting to places with under production. Probably at a nice profit. Ironically, this raises prices locally as well. So e.g. Norway, which has an almost 100% renewable grid, sees a lot of lucrative demand for energy exports. So, prices go up locally as well. That's the energy market working.
- Europe has peaker plants that burn gas or coal that are switched on when demand is high. That raises cost for producers, which gets reflected in energy pricing. These are plants that are normally not in operation because they are too expensive to operate at this point.
- Gas is used for heating as well and winter is coming. Northern Europe is a bit cooler than usual so lots of places are probably already firing up their gas powered heating systems. That would increase demand and as mentioned, gas prices are high right now.
- Solar is a substantial portion of the market at this point and the amount of light in September is going down. Also August was relatively cloudy. Solar being less effective in the dark seasons is neither unexpected nor unusual. The more solar we have, the bigger the price differences will be. Because when it is there, it is cheap. It's part of the reason lots of legacy plants are now peaker plants. We still need them but not all the time.
So, the system is working. People suggesting that we need more coal, gas, or nuclear need to understand that those are the expensive options in the market right now. They are part of the problem, not the solution. They are the reason prices are high and unstable right now.
Renewable energy on the other hand does not see raised cost; only increased profits. The issue is we don't have enough of it just yet. So, that's a nice incentive right there to get more of it. Particularly offshore wind seems like a nice option lately. The more we can rely on that, the more stable the prices are going to be because we'll no longer need the expensive alternatives. More offshore wind will help. More people with batteries in their house will help. More grid storage will help. Smarter pricing and metering will help.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, if you want: Not building twice as many (wind/anything) was a major mistake. Nuclear power plants fail sometimes, just like the wind fails. In 2016 almost a third of the plants in France were offline at the same time, some for planned maintenance, some unplanned, and the peak prices were higher than now. All these things are fixable by overbuilding enough. There's nothing special or magic about nuclear.
> There's nothing special or magic about nuclear. Apart from the technology, safety profile and generally being the cleanest source of energy ever discovered. And being able to stockpile enormous amounts of energy in a small heap if necessary ^^. And if we could just convince people to accept it only causing say, half as much damage as coal it would be ridiculously cheap too. These appallingly high safety standards a…
Your broader point is strong though, and there's no reason 4th-gen nuclear power plants being designed now couldn't deliver a quarter (or less) the damage of coal while still being economical.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. That's not the point, the point being to illustrate how interconnected the EU grid is. 2. Regarding your comment, I personally don't see Germany importing 72 gCO2/MW power to export 399 gCO2/MW power as a good thing for anyone but coal companies, but whatever floats your boat.
"the point being to illustrate how interconnected the EU grid is." Which is a good thing. Very few countries are self sufficient regarding cars for example, or Kiwis. So humanity invented trading and people trade things they don't have for things they have - so good interconnection is a good thing.
Absolutely.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#197We're working on reducing gas dependency, shortages and price fluctuations are one factor, but dependency on Russia is another. I do wonder how much our gas import from Russia is helping us keep the peace.
> I do wonder how much our gas import from Russia is helping us keep the peace. And keeping Russians and their "dominion" oppressed. Just shows how morally bankrupt Europe is, and with how smug Europe is that is really cringey.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#198Not building new nuclear power plants in the last 30 years was a major mistake, in terms of energy supply security as well as CO2 emissions.
French generation is ~70% nuclear (10% wind/solar) and German is ~10% (~40% wind/solar). Yet their prices track each other closely. So I think this explanation is too simplistic. Possibly there are large interconnects between the French and German grids levelling out wholesale prices, but my assumption is that they cannot carry enough power for this imagined scenario where nuclear makes a big difference.
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean financially risky.
Actually, it’s the opposite. It’s absolutely low risk because the electricity production can be sold years in advance if you want. Nuclear electricity has the highest of all capacity factors and is therefore almost 100% planable, so there is virtually zero risk.
Nuclear tends to have a higher capacity factor than most other baseload generators, but it also has unplanned outages.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45176
The biggest risk I've seen is that unanticipated events (including financial events) will completely shutter a unit, like San Onofre and Indian Point 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_...
Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?
#200We're working on reducing gas dependency, shortages and price fluctuations are one factor, but dependency on Russia is another. I do wonder how much our gas import from Russia is helping us keep the peace.
I'm really afraid that high gas prices would be the tipping point when US and EU would turn from funding internal revolution in Russia (figures like Navalny) to a hot war.
Europe always needed and wanted our resources. Just read German documents from WWII: only part of it was hatred and desire to genocide Russians. The most serious motivation was to plunder Russian natural resources.
We don't need Europe. We have the largest country on Earth. We have all the natural resources we need. I'm tired of all this EU/US bullshit of "Russian aggression". Especially coming from a country that is eternally at war with all the world (USA).