Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 435 posts

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#171

Post by cbmuser »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #146
brabel wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're incredibly risky. Nuclear is risky?? I've heard the opposite, nuclear power plants tend to be extremely safe. You probably think it's risky because of 2 or 3 large scale accidents in the last 50 years or so. While those have a large impact, I don't think I would consider nuclear "extremely risky" just because of those.

I mean financially risky.

Actually, it’s the opposite. It’s absolutely low risk because the electricity production can be sold years in advance if you want.

Nuclear electricity has the highest of all capacity factors and is therefore almost 100% planable, so there is virtually zero risk.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#173

Post by cbmuser »

pfdietz wrote: post #18
adrianN wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also in terms of cost? Nuclear power plants are not exactly cheap.

A NPP is an order of magnitude more expensive than a combined cycle power plant of the same power output. So even if electricity prices are high now because of gas constraints, that doesn't mean a NPP would have been a good idea. Europe should perhaps have diversified their gas suppliers, with more LNG.

Nuclear doesn’t need any backup plants or grid extension. The capital costs are high, but the electricity production is almost a 100% planable and reliable.

I mean, Germany’s electricity situation is basically proving you wrong. We have the highest electricity prices, worldwide.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#175

Post by jeffbee »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #60

For the UK it's a tripple whammy right now: high gas prices, a fire at an interchange to France and with Brexit they left the EU’s internal energy market. As a result the prices for electricity are skyrocketing at certain times of the day. That's what weekend pricing looked yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/U275C5r.png

I mean, £1/kWh is pretty high, but it's not totally outrageous and it appears to have been capped by some kind of regulatory limit. 42¢/kWh is the standard retail price in California during peak demand hours, and that's not a huge difference.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#177

Post by cbmuser »

me_me_me wrote: post #23
pfdietz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A NPP is an order of magnitude more expensive than a combined cycle power plant of the same power output. So even if electricity prices are high now because of gas constraints, that doesn't mean a NPP would have been a good idea. Europe should perhaps have diversified their gas suppliers, with more LNG.

Its more expensive to build because you know... a nuclear meltdown is a thing to avoid.

Russia’s brand-new Novovoronezh II NPP with 2x1200 MW costs $4 billion to build.

Germany is paying 24 billion Euros of renewable energy subsidies through its electricity prices - every year.

Nuclear can be cheap if you don’t mess it up.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#178

Post by cbmuser »

adrianN wrote: post #66
mem0r1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Some) Advantages of nuclear power in comparison to 'renewables': - EROI (energy return on energy invested) - ratio of land required / energy produced - much lower flow of materials (rare earth etc.) - constant and very high power output (no storage needed)

Well yes, but I'm a bit skeptical that nuclear is also cheaper.

It is cheaper as long as you don’t ignore the necessary backup power plants that solar and wind need.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#179

Post by Enginerrrd »

brabel wrote: post #132
bcrosby95 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point nuclear is the most expensive per mw. And the vast majority of that expense is upfront. So almost no one wants to invest in these things because they're incredibly risky.

> they're incredibly risky. Nuclear is risky?? I've heard the opposite, nuclear power plants tend to be extremely safe. You probably think it's risky because of 2 or 3 large scale accidents in the last 50 years or so. While those have a large impact, I don't think I would consider nuclear "extremely risky" just because of those.

I think they mean from the standpoint of it being a major financial investment with a non-negligible risk of project-failure subject to political whims and a high likelihood of significant cost overruns. I'd love to see some subsidies to address those issues though.

Re: Why has the price of electricity in Europe reached record highs?

#180

Post by cbmuser »

pfdietz wrote: post #20
mhandley wrote: post #10

The strike price for nuclear power from Hinkley Point C when it becomes operational will be £92.50/MWh. This has received a lot of criticism for being too high. With current wholesale rates at £385/MWh, suddenly Hinkley Point C doesn't look so expensive any more.

Except Hinkley Point C would require those high prices persist for a decade in order to pay off. That's unlikely to happen.

Well, I don’t see why it shouldn’t happen. It’s not like the UK is currently building nuclear power plants like China or Russia do.
Post reply on HN