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Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

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Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#81

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tnvaught wrote: post #70
option_greek wrote: post #30

Don't Joke is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

I would refine this advice to "sarcasm is never appropriate in an uneven power dynamic." Whether it's in the context of parenting, teaching or managing people. As a go-to form of humor, I've learned this the hard way. It's not actually helpful for folks to hear the hilarious monologue going on in my head when I'm feeling salty. There _are_ legitimately relationship-building funny things to say, but they're usually se…

I might further distinguish between sarcasm towards others versus sarcasm towards oneself. Most of my sarcasm is self-effacing, and I think that's generally okay with adults. (Less-so children.)

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#82

Post by adolph »

amelius wrote: post #5
bb123 wrote: post #2

I love advice like this - it is clear, easy to remember, and simple to apply.

And now we have a URL we can direct our managers to whenever they make these stupid jokes.

Gotta love those domains that can be read two ways.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#83

Post by ludamad »

pantulis wrote: post #66
bootlooped wrote: post #19

I have made this mistake, I think the damage was between none and low but I still regretted it.

This is truly a mistake. I did adopt the pose of the bastard boss in a tongue-in-cheek fashion (for example breaking a printed vacation request) and never got nothing but a good laugh in response. But this is toxic behaviour an in a multicultural environment can be damaging to the team and personally devastating. Just don't.

It's awkward to LARP that it is all at your whim - because at some point someone will ask too much in a vacation request and you do suddenly need to explain the factors very not much in your control (before proceeding to then rip up their request, of course ;))

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#84

Post by Danieru »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #54

I feel that it's sad this even needs to be advice. I'd think it should be obvious, but we miss "obvious" things, every day. Management is, way too often, treated as a "privilege," and a "reward." I was a manager for 25 years. I never felt "privileged," and I considered it a "curse." I hated every damn minute of it, but I kept doing it, because I am a control freak, and couldn't trust anyone else to do a better job. I…

In my experience the issue arises not because managers are treating the position as a privilege. Rather the opposite. A regular person one day becomes a manager. They feel the same today as the day before. They feel the new power is fake, or theoretical. It becomes easy to joke about this power. In their head the joke is funny because of irony. "How could I have power? I'm just a regular person."

A further issue is the mismatch in weight given to their words over their intention. Even I hit this, once my employee told me he gave strong weight to a point I had casually mentioned. For once in my life someone remembered what I said better than me. It was a bit worrying, as my exact comment had been meant to be a minor point.

Thankfully I knew prior to "getting power" to, as I word it, "never make jokes which imply a power structure". As the listener can never truly know if the joke was speaking to an unsaid idea.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#85

Post by AmericanChopper »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #47
option_greek wrote: post #30

Don't Joke is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

While I certainly agree that jokes are dangerous , they're also a key way humans form social connections! I do think a sense of humor is important for building a rapport with colleagues.

Many ordinary social interactions have become sins recently. Saying anything that could be interpreted as offensive poses a very real risk to your career, the list of potentially offensive things is incredibly long, and gets longer with each passing moment as novel outrages pop up in all corners of the world.

You can still be kind, empathetic and polite to everybody you work with. But avoiding authentic personal relationships at work is very sensible, along with having very clear personal boundaries. Normal colleagues can form cliques of people they trust, but it’s not a great outcome for management to be participating in that, even though that’s what usually happens.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#86

Post by option_greek »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #47
option_greek wrote: post #30

Don't Joke is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

While I certainly agree that jokes are dangerous , they're also a key way humans form social connections! I do think a sense of humor is important for building a rapport with colleagues.

For peers at same level in their own setting that is indeed true. When with people that report to you, might not be a good idea because, one can't tell if even the laughter is genuine or obligated to.

There are some instances where it might potentially help - when your team is under stress (real or perceived). Light humor (if well done), might alleviate some of the tension in the room and let them focus on work.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#87

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Danieru wrote: post #84
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #54

I feel that it's sad this even needs to be advice. I'd think it should be obvious, but we miss "obvious" things, every day. Management is, way too often, treated as a "privilege," and a "reward." I was a manager for 25 years. I never felt "privileged," and I considered it a "curse." I hated every damn minute of it, but I kept doing it, because I am a control freak, and couldn't trust anyone else to do a better job. I…

In my experience the issue arises not because managers are treating the position as a privilege. Rather the opposite. A regular person one day becomes a manager. They feel the same today as the day before. They feel the new power is fake, or theoretical. It becomes easy to joke about this power. In their head the joke is funny because of irony. "How could I have power? I'm just a regular person." A further issue is t…

Good point.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#88

Post by wefarrell »

terramex wrote: post #11

As a more general advice - person in position of power should not joke about causing harm. Whether is is manager joking about firing employee, stronger person joking about beating up weaker one or parent joking about throwing child out of house when they misbehave. This kind of humor works only when it is coming from weaker position and even then only in certain situations.

"Always punch up, never punch down"

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#89

Post by MrGilbert »

simias wrote: post #6

That's excellent advice that many have learned the hard way... Honestly even as a non-manager it's a very bad idea. When I was a junior one of my colleagues was called to the manager's office. I assumed it would be for some mundane project scheduling or whatever, so I jokingly said "you're getting fired" as he was going there. And he was. This is one of these memories that come back to haunt you late at night when yo…

3 years ago, I had a talk with the Chief Senior Physician of the hospital my mum was treated. She was terminally ill, she was fightiing for weeks, but there was no hope left. So it was decided to end all life support measures.

When I went back to my car, where my then-minor sister was waiting for news, I said: "Sie hat es geschafft.", which literally means "She made it" in German - however, I meant it in the meaning of "She doesn't have to suffer any more.", which is also a valid meaning. After seeing the rlief on my sister's face, I immediately apologized and explained the situation.

Ever since this day, I a) think twice before I speak and b) try to avoid double meanings as much as I can. It still haunts me, though she's fine with it.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#90

Post by mherdeg »

Something I learned the hard way at the student newspaper is that the word "Fired" has some very strong psychological implications in US English -- it implies someone no longer has a job because of something bad they did.

We got some strong negative feedback about a headline saying that people had been "fired" when the story was that a kind of lab technology had become obsolete and a number of lab technicians had been laid off. I had signed off on the headline, was responsible, and have never forgotten.

People take their jobs very seriously; it's the thing we choose to do -- or have to do -- instead of being with our families and friends. And "fired" is one of the strongest words in our language. We need to be sure we understand what we are doing when we use it.

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