Live data from Hacker News

Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

politico.eu

111–120 of 168 posts

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#111

One problem with this sort of thing is that the "who would you rather have a beer with" question is actually vastly important in black swan situations. If you believe that a candidate shares your basic instincts and cultural mores, they're likely to take the choice you would in an unexpected circumstance, like the Covid pandemic, for instance.

That goes back to whether you're electing your drinking buddy that shares the same types of instinct and mores into the top political positions is the appropriate way to approach the whole process. Democracy only works when we're humble and aware of our own limitations. We need to develop our trust in other people based on their capability as opposed to their personality.

Are their personality and capability not linked? Conscientiousness, for example, is highly correlated with career success.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#112
post #90

I hope not too many people base their voting decision on the amount of similarity they have in their answers with parties. The way questions are phrased do not always give parties a way to answer (Yes/No/Neutral) in the same way. As an example, 2 parties could both say No to a higher Co2-tax, but one of them does so because they claim climate change is a hoax, while the other one has a problem with it not being progr…

Wahlomat was a great starting point for me as someone who is not up-to-date on current party agendas. However, its weakness is that it breaks down answers into yes/no options. For me there were lots of items that required more than that (for example: I was looking for parties who reject the premise of a given question - I would have loved a graphical indicator for those cases). But I have to say, drilling down to get…

I would always assume that when a single-issue party gets elected, they would push mostly on that issue. Because if someone sympathizes with the Pirates, they do because of the core message, not because of their social policies (which any party is required to answer but some care less)

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#113
post #2

The biggest problem with Wahl-O-Mat in my view is that it only looks at what parties claim they will do, not their historical voting record. There had been some discussion around this topic this election cycle, so perhaps they will try to address it in future iterations.

That’s probably less of a problem than you think it is.

Historically it’s more likely than not that promises are kept. (That this isn’t the case is mostly dumb propaganda.) The biggest wrinkle to this is that Germany has coalition governments, so no one party can implement their whole election program.

What is and isn’t done isn’t random, though, and you will find different parties putting a different emphasis one different things. For example, I’m certain that the Greens would drop a great many of their policies on anything except climate if they were elected. However, it’s not as though that emphasis is exactly surprising.

Other than that Wahl-o-Mat is an obviously imperfect tool trying to somewhat simplify something very complex. Which is valuable.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#114
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't even work that well for the governing parties. Coalition governments are based on the parties making compromises where their positions disagree. This means that in particular the smaller partner(s) have to vote against their own program most of the time if they want to at least get their core issues through the parliament. Unfortunately, an alarming number of people seem not to know this.

Sounds like working as intended - "supporting an idea" is meaningless without expressing priorities and strength - you claim to support some idea but will demonstrably give up on it if it gets you to the ruling majority - if I care about this idea I should not vote for you. "We support clean energy" - "we had to support opening new coal plants because we wanted to get support on our budget proposal for some agency"..…

You're right, that's why the platform should be able to show all the promises a party has made and how many they also implemented (helped to). That would be decisive for single-issue parties, and still very helpful for major ones - you can see if the delivered anything at all and if yes, on which points. Like, did the Greens deliver anything on their green agenda, or just checked a few points on the social issues: did they deliver on their core points?

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#115
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was something that I really noticed this year, not so much in the previous cycles. Maybe because my mind was already made up and the results really didn't reflect my expectations very well. After you get your result, you can see the reasons why every party gave the answers they did, and reading those statements, especially on answer where your party of choice had different answers than your own were very insight…

The thing is, for people for whom going through the one paragraph of reasoning the parties actually give is too much, what better alternative is there? Given the alternatives: Vote by personality vs vote by Wahl-o-mat score, I would 100% of the time encourage people to vote by Wahl-o-mat score.

You can change your priorities there, and compare the opinions of multiple candidate parties on these ones if needed.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#117
post #2

The biggest problem with Wahl-O-Mat in my view is that it only looks at what parties claim they will do, not their historical voting record. There had been some discussion around this topic this election cycle, so perhaps they will try to address it in future iterations.

Parliament work is about making compromises. Between partners and enemies. Between Dreams and Realities. Party Program is vision, voting record is reality after the compromise.

We lost the capability to make and accept compromises.

The only one thing, that is truly additional relevant indicator: Are the parties/parliamentarian transparent and free of corruption/lobbyism.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#118

If only the parties were legally bound to fulfill the promises they make before the election...

How would that work? Let's say the ruling party proposes a law that perfectly matches one of their promise, this law is rejected in the parliament. Then what?

Realistically, all promises are at best "we will try to".

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#119

Why are political parties necessary? Instead of chosing representatives in bulk we should decide democratically about each of these particular questions. Then, a professional executive power (elected independently, or simply hired) would be legally bound to implement these decisions.

In my opinion, there are many reasons why representative democracy is a better idea. Just because more direct democracy works in Switzerland doesn't mean it would work elsewhere. Switzerland has a very long tradition of it (among men, women weren't allowed to vote for a long time). It's also a very small country.

The main reasons: First, direct democracy is very vulnerable to populism. Easy slogans that prey on emotions are prone to win against more realistic attitudes. Second, it's very easy to manipulate direct voting. The way you ask can practically determine the outcome. We know that from opinion polls where seemingly very similar questions can lead to totally different results, based on small details or how many choices there are. There are many ways to prevent this in opinion polls, but these would not work in an adversarial political setting. Third, many decisions require expertise that cannot be put into simple questions, and the general public will not have the expertise. In Germany, many members of parliament are surprisingly well qualified in certain areas like tax and defence politics. These are the "backseat" members voted in by party lists, not by direct election. Giving a direction and letting these experts figure out the details later works better than asking for concrete decisions that cannot be later corrected (because they are, as you say, legally binding). If you let people decide about the same issues directly, they will most often not even be able to distinguish between suggestions that are feasible and those that are imaginary. Again, the populist who provides the easy, though entirely imaginary "solution" can easily gain the upper hand. Direct democracy is also more vulnerable to disinformation than representative democracy. This also happens in party programs, of course, but the representative power structure kind of dampens the negative effects from it. Finally, representatives are ideally able to take on political responsibility (and sometimes indeed do), i.e., resign from their post even if a mistake wasn't their personal fault. No corresponding concept of political responsibility exists for the suggested technocrats. Moreover, once a policy decision is made, putting it into place requires a long series of more or less political decisions, too. You cannot just hand over those smaller political decisions to experts.

My 2 cents. Of course, this doesn't preclude discussing how much direct democracy one needs or wants. But I personally completely reject any suggestions for radical direct democracy (which every new radical party invariably makes for a while).

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#120

I hope not too many people base their voting decision on the amount of similarity they have in their answers with parties. The way questions are phrased do not always give parties a way to answer (Yes/No/Neutral) in the same way. As an example, 2 parties could both say No to a higher Co2-tax, but one of them does so because they claim climate change is a hoax, while the other one has a problem with it not being progr…

I'd say the election is still very emotional because people don't know if they can trust those statements. Many young people were upset when upload filters were introduced after the politicians responsible had explicitly and publicly promised that there wouldn't be any. Many old people were upset by the amount of corruption happening recently, from overpriced covid masks to 700 mio Eur in non-refundable deposit payme…

Interesting the 700mil Eur scrapped software project. Any links, non german if possible?
Post reply on HN