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Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

politico.eu

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Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#71

Post by the-dude »

square_usual wrote: post #49
woodpanel wrote: post #30

It's really odd: In the previous election, you couldn't see/hear one news report about the election without mentioning the Wahl-O-Mat. This election-time it was some internet meme that reminded me it existed. After usage of it, it becomes apparent as to why it gets zero coverage: Almost everyone I've asked (migrant/unemployed/self-employed/postal-worker/cooks/farmer/cab-driver/...) experienced a stark surprise. The p…

> Some of my migrant friends joked that I should label them a right-winger now. I don't see how that's odd. Many migrants come from more conservative (in the Western sense) cultures. They can align with the progressive parties because they're afraid of the conservative ones due to their anti-immigrant stances, but that doesn't mean they are progressive.

I think you would be surprised how many immigrants have an anti-immigrant stance once they are in. I know a couple.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#72

Post by Certhas »

MildlySerious wrote: post #47
bakuninsbart wrote: post #9

I hope not too many people base their voting decision on the amount of similarity they have in their answers with parties. The way questions are phrased do not always give parties a way to answer (Yes/No/Neutral) in the same way. As an example, 2 parties could both say No to a higher Co2-tax, but one of them does so because they claim climate change is a hoax, while the other one has a problem with it not being progr…

This was something that I really noticed this year, not so much in the previous cycles. Maybe because my mind was already made up and the results really didn't reflect my expectations very well. After you get your result, you can see the reasons why every party gave the answers they did, and reading those statements, especially on answer where your party of choice had different answers than your own were very insight…

The thing is, for people for whom going through the one paragraph of reasoning the parties actually give is too much, what better alternative is there?

Given the alternatives: Vote by personality vs vote by Wahl-o-mat score, I would 100% of the time encourage people to vote by Wahl-o-mat score.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#73

Post by mytailorisrich »

Barrin92 wrote: post #39
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #18

Is voting based on matching your exact ideology a good idea? You could have a system where everyone has a party that represents their views exactly, but democracy is about compromise, which takes political skill. This should be a factor in voting. In the UK, up until recently we had a pretty far left guy called Jeremy Corbyn in charge of Labour, the largest left wing party. I was pretty aligned with him on a his idea…

Germany utilizes a proportionate parliamentary system and the level of consensus building is supposed to happen at the party level. People express their party preferences, and coalitions are going to produce governments that can legislate. The German chancellor does not tower over policy. You're primarily voting for a party, not a person. Even more so in Scandinavia, where minority governments are common. This is not…

> You're primarily voting for a party, not a person.

It's the same in the UK and in both cases the party leader is in charge.

One key difference is that the UK's political landscape is bi-partite so coalitions are usually not needed.

The voting system in the UK is also designed to produce a clear majority in Parliament in order to allow for a stable and effective government (by 'effective' I am able to implement its policies, i.e. to legislate).

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#74

Post by ManuelKiessling »

phgn wrote: post #21
patates wrote: post #6

There are still so many emotion loaded messages, while "Die Partei" keeps making fun of them: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-germany-dortmund-may15th20...

They are funny indeed - using public election funds (meant to give each party a chance) to put up jokes. Whether you think that's right or not, it's hilarious.

I would go so far as to say that not only is that right and hilarious - it is REALLY important for us as a society, although I cannot put into words why I think that way.

PS: Remember to say NO to an Autobahn speed limit of 130 km/h! 131 km/h is the way to go!

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#75

Post by kohlerm »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #9

I hope not too many people base their voting decision on the amount of similarity they have in their answers with parties. The way questions are phrased do not always give parties a way to answer (Yes/No/Neutral) in the same way. As an example, 2 parties could both say No to a higher Co2-tax, but one of them does so because they claim climate change is a hoax, while the other one has a problem with it not being progr…

"Funny" fact it seems like the FDP is the party of "no opinion", e.g they are neutral to a lot of questions.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#76

Post by MillenialMan »

A few elections ago in the UK, a site like this got popular, where you'd answer a quiz and it would recommend the party most closely "matched" your preferences. A lot of people ended up getting recommended the green party, despite the fact the party is fairly fringe and has no real voting record. Turns out the site was set up by the Green party. Go figure.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#77

Post by davidkunz »

The problem with Wahl-O-Mat is that only questions are displayed for which all parties provided an answer.

Let's say there's a right-wing party wanting to deport all foreigners. But they want a tempo limit, want to invest in wind energy, etc... In the end you could end up with a lot of (false!) agreement.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#78

Post by MillenialMan »

starfallg wrote: post #52
bencollier49 wrote: post #43

One problem with this sort of thing is that the "who would you rather have a beer with" question is actually vastly important in black swan situations. If you believe that a candidate shares your basic instincts and cultural mores, they're likely to take the choice you would in an unexpected circumstance, like the Covid pandemic, for instance.

That goes back to whether you're electing your drinking buddy that shares the same types of instinct and mores into the top political positions is the appropriate way to approach the whole process. Democracy only works when we're humble and aware of our own limitations. We need to develop our trust in other people based on their capability as opposed to their personality.

I would argue the average person is terrible at assessing bureaucratic ability but pretty good at assessing personality, so I think they're better off voting with their gut.

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#79

Post by belorn »

hef19898 wrote: post #50
belorn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about Germany only? In Sweden and Norway we have had parties that want to leave EU on both side of the political spectrum. The EU question has many aspects to it, in particular when it comes to fees, democratic control over laws, and voting rights. You need strong incentives to keep smaller countries that pay way more than they get back and which voting impact is dwarfed by larger countries. An argume…

How would Norway leave the EU before joining it in the first place?

Norways has a special deal with EU. One interpretation (might be unfair) is that they basically have all the responsibilities of an EU member but without voting rights. They do also pay some fees, through I think it is much smaller in total.

In return they are part of the European Economic Area, which include most aspects of free movement and following of EU regulations.

Some of the information can be gained from wikipedia (including which political parties is in favor or against): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_...

Re: Germany’s no-emotion voting guide surges despite campaign of personalities

#80

Post by samhw »

nebolo wrote: post #63
enriquto wrote: post #62

Why are political parties necessary? Instead of chosing representatives in bulk we should decide democratically about each of these particular questions. Then, a professional executive power (elected independently, or simply hired) would be legally bound to implement these decisions.

You can surely see how this could be problematic? Q1: Should we lower taxes? Q2: Should we introduce 5k/month UBI?

I still think the kernel of the idea is a really interesting one. Could you make it work, by, say, ranked-choice voting to allow trading off conflicting priorities? (You wouldn't even need to get people to explicitly rank them, come to think of it - you could just prioritise the more popular 'yes' questions.)
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