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The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

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Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#191

Post by 8note »

tigershark wrote: post #182
cxpeople wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has the same numbers as Germany. Sweden and Germany are very similar with respect to culture, clustering of people in cities, percentage of people with a migration background. Norway and Sweden are not. Turns out that Sweden and Germany have similar results: https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/why-does-no-one-ever-talk-abou...

Yeah, right. Let’s compare Sweden with 10M people and a very low population density with Germany with 83M people and 10 times the population density instead of Norway that has comparable population and density and 10 times less deaths just because it helps your narrative. Such comments spreading misinformation should not be allowed at all here in my opinion.

Empty land doesn't get sick. The people in Sweden are concentrated in one fairly dense area, Stockholm.

I don't think the overall #people/surface area of the country is something meaningful to compare.

I hypothesize that comparing Sweden and Germany is about the same as comparing Stockholm to an average of German cities. I don't have the German and Swedish skills to find and compare the data though

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#192

Post by 8note »

angelzen wrote: post #156
bildung wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Response type absolutely matters. Sweden has 10x the death rate of Norway, for example. Norway, Finland, Denmark, even Cuba, a poor country with 3x the population density of the US is significantly below 700. Australia stands at 45, not 700, BTW.

As it happens, we don't live happily ever after unless the evil covid kills us. There are plenty of other death causes, some directly caused by lockdowns like delayed health care, suicide, OD, increased poverty. What we really want to look at is excess mortality, and possibly excess 'quality years lived' for some definition thereof. Some Canadian researchers looked at excess mortality in Canada and found it 3x than '…

Delayed healthcare doesn't fit in there. That's directly related to covid, whether there's lockdowns or not. No lockdowns means you can't get healthcare because the doctors and nurses are busy with covid patients

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#193

Post by varelse »

taeric wrote: post #187
varelse wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condoms bought time to come up with a treatment for HIV in the same way that masks bought time for us to arrive at vaccines, no?

I mean... Maybe? I don't think I ever saw evidence that they moved that needle. And to your previous point, a ton of damage came from politicizing the issue.

https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/do-condoms-work

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#194

Post by tigershark »

8note wrote: post #191
tigershark wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, right. Let’s compare Sweden with 10M people and a very low population density with Germany with 83M people and 10 times the population density instead of Norway that has comparable population and density and 10 times less deaths just because it helps your narrative. Such comments spreading misinformation should not be allowed at all here in my opinion.

Empty land doesn't get sick. The people in Sweden are concentrated in one fairly dense area, Stockholm. I don't think the overall #people/surface area of the country is something meaningful to compare. I hypothesize that comparing Sweden and Germany is about the same as comparing Stockholm to an average of German cities. I don't have the German and Swedish skills to find and compare the data though

“Empty land doesn't get sick”

That’s exactly the point. In Norway and Sweden, unlike Germany, there is a huge amount of empty land. For this reason it doesn’t make sense at all to compare Sweden with Germany when you have a far, far better comparison in the nearby country.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#195

Post by rayiner »

bildung wrote: post #96
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know that there will be new viruses. What matters is how we respond to them. In this case the US response was completely botched. It’s worth talking about better versus worse covid response, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. Most of the G7 didn’t do that much better: from Germany to Italy, and including the US, they’re all in the 1,200 to 2,200 de…

Response type absolutely matters. Sweden has 10x the death rate of Norway, for example. Norway, Finland, Denmark, even Cuba, a poor country with 3x the population density of the US is significantly below 700. Australia stands at 45, not 700, BTW.

I’m not sure what you can get out of comparing small Scandinavian countries.

Out of the big ones, Germany is at 1,200 and the US is at 2,000. What’s the effect of response type when you account for the scale of obesity in the US versus Germany?

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#196

Post by rayiner »

oftenadequate wrote: post #103
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know that there will be new viruses. What matters is how we respond to them. In this case the US response was completely botched. It’s worth talking about better versus worse covid response, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. Most of the G7 didn’t do that much better: from Germany to Italy, and including the US, they’re all in the 1,200 to 2,200 de…

Your COVID numbers are woefully, embarassingly inaccurate. US: 41,587,821 Cases; 666,702 Deaths; 328.2M people. ~2,000 deaths per million. Germany: 4,127,158 Cases; 92,906 Deaths; 83.13M people. ~1,100 deaths per million. Australia: 85,629 Cases; 1,162 Deaths; 25.36M people. ~45 deaths per million. While the difference between the first two is significant, one of these is really not like the others, and I'm still gla…

Sorry I got Austria and Australia mixed up. I plead being American.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#197

Post by rayiner »

tigershark wrote: post #185
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know that there will be new viruses. What matters is how we respond to them. In this case the US response was completely botched. It’s worth talking about better versus worse covid response, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. Most of the G7 didn’t do that much better: from Germany to Italy, and including the US, they’re all in the 1,200 to 2,200 de…

Your numbers are completely and utterly wrong, please stop spreading misinformation.

Italy, Germany, France, the UK, and Spain are indeed in the range of 1,200-2,000. I got Austria mixed up with Australia.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#198

Post by autoliteInline »

aught wrote: post #120
autoliteInline wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. I think it matters quite a lot, but not for scientific reasons. If the point of origin is sloppy lab practice (maybe it's impossible to not be sloppy) and everyone lied about it, I want to know everything. Trust is a hard thing to re-gain but I really want to know where we all stand. Realistic calibration of your position vs. power centers is always a good thing…

> …I want to know everything. Trust is a hard thing to re-gain but I really want to know where we all stand. Realistic calibration of your position vs. power centers is always a good thing. I agree but that trust was never there. It has always been the case that the public cannot be trusted with information or full information that might cause any panic not because of the panic behavior itself but due to panic behavi…

>I agree but that trust was never there.

It largely was but misplaced. Walter Cronkite was never truthful, the Joint Chiefs of Staff rarely had your interest in mind. Public policy has always been people scrabbling for status while feigning morality.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#199

Post by redis_mlc »

shakna wrote: post #12
redis_mlc wrote: post #3

Sharri Markson's book on corona is released tomorrow. She's been the leading journalist since early 2020 on corona. NTD Media also ignored the global embargo coordinated by the CCP/Peter Daszak/Fauci.

Markson is also the reason that SkyNews was temporarily banned on YouTube [0], for repeatedly delivering information that was more grounded in the imagination, than in anything with actual evidence backing it. She helped promote and mislead around claims to do with hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, mis-identifying chemical differences between human formulations and animal formulations, leading to hospital admissions.…

The above post is deliberately misleading since:

1) Nobody questions her WIV reporting. She has multiple sources and in 2021 they are the most likely explanations, not an "alternative." There are enough FOIA documents to prove a GoF coverup by Fauci and Daszak, and enough video to show what was happening inside WIV.

The DOE reported in May 2020 that a corona lab leak was possible, and the only reason Fauci wasn't fired was to avoid making him a martyr - big mistake, since Fauci was able to coordinate a coverup for over a year.

The head of WHO also admitted that a lab leak was possible in summer 2021.

2) Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are prescribed by medical doctors for corona, so that's a red herring. But that's a separate issue than her year-long, accurate WIV reporting.

3) Youtube bans anybody who doesn't agree with their narrative - it's a badge of honor at this point.

The problem is that people like shakna are the ones who are in fact anti-science, just endlessly parroting MSM narratives instead of examining the facts. If you haven't followed the WIV investigation closely, then stop posting misinformation.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#200

Post by angelzen »

8note wrote: post #192
angelzen wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it happens, we don't live happily ever after unless the evil covid kills us. There are plenty of other death causes, some directly caused by lockdowns like delayed health care, suicide, OD, increased poverty. What we really want to look at is excess mortality, and possibly excess 'quality years lived' for some definition thereof. Some Canadian researchers looked at excess mortality in Canada and found it 3x than '…

Delayed healthcare doesn't fit in there. That's directly related to covid, whether there's lockdowns or not. No lockdowns means you can't get healthcare because the doctors and nurses are busy with covid patients

Delayed healthcare is also people scared out of their minds missing cancer screenings or even mundane teeth cleanings because 'what if I get covid from the doctor's office'?
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