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A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

aphyr.com

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Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#21

Post by seibelj »

aphyr wrote: post #14

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement.…

That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#22

Post by hprotagonist »

aphyr wrote: post #14

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement.…

submitter, cishet dude, and long-time admirer of your work here.

I posted the link because i was impressed with your usual style and level of detail and thoughtful work.

it wasn’t my intention to feed the trolls; perhaps i haven’t spent enough time on Svalbard? :)

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#23

Post by dang »

All: This post is on topic because of the interesting historical material. HN is for intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

If it excites stronger emotions (or sensations) in you than intellectual curiosity, please don't post to this thread. There are 28 other things on the front page to read*, and we don't want tedious flamewars here.

(* maybe avoid the covid leak debate thread too)

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#24

Post by [deleted] »

seibelj wrote: post #21
aphyr wrote: post #14

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement.…

That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.

[deleted]

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#25

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

> Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification. Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that wearing a leather harness in public is considered…

[deleted]

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#26

Post by klyrs »

seibelj wrote: post #21
aphyr wrote: post #14

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement.…

That’s a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community as -phobic is very unfair.

Here's the thing though. When it's a predictable outcome that somebody in the crowd will post x-phobic responses to a given story, then it's completely unreasonable for an x-person to expect a lack of x-phobia. If you were more concerned about the frequency of x-phobia in this community, rather than taking offense at people speaking about the negative experiences at the hands of this community, perhaps the community wouldn't have the reputation that it does.

Blocking on referers is a defensive move, not at all aggressive.

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#27

Post by kradeelav »

I wish I had known earlier that Brenda Howard (Mother of Pride) was leather-adjacent, if not outright identified as Leather herself. Would've been many years of shame evaporated right there had Leather history been more accessible, and on a lighter note, it always amuses me when younger folks argue against "leather at pride" not knowing her direct involvement.

This was a fantastic essay, and I'm glad it was written and posted separately. Thank you. For others reading this comment, links that may be of interest and further research:

- Leather Archives - (http://leatherarchives.org/) incredible museum that collects the lived history of those who found themselves in this subculture and identity.

- "Leather Resources" (http://kradeelav.com/leather-resources.html) Showcasing some of the Leather-related links that I've slowly collected over the years while trying to track down and preserve even a little bit of history. Extremely fun rabbit trails from here. :)

(I write this post as a bisexual woman in a long-term relationship with another woman. Leather is the only LGBT+ label I remotely felt at home in, for many private/personal reasons.)

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#28

Post by jet_32951 »

mycodesucks wrote: post #11
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

> Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification. Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that wearing a leather harness in public is considered…

"wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public? I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some decency.

Boundaries that delineate these celebrations have been explicit in SF at least since I started going in the early 2000s. The intent is to create a safe space for participants. Within that realm at those times the boundaries represent the presence of that space and that "normal social conduct" is no longer the norm.

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#29

Post by camtarn »

aphyr wrote: post #14

For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia, and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years--including replies to my technical writing. I know exactly how this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I'm asking y'all not to have it. I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild discouragement.…

As a queer HN'er - thank you for writing and compiling this! It's quite some amount of work. Like you say, it's so important for a community to know its own history.

Re: A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995

#30

Post by mkr-hn »

ThePadawan wrote: post #20
mycodesucks wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public? I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some decency.

I personally find that the most uncivilized people always come dressed in suit and tie.

Like any other thing, it depends on why someone wears it. A trans man wearing a traditional man's cut to celebrate getting top surgery at pride is probably not what you had in mind though.
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