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Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

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Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#41

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

vadfa wrote: post #35
Gualdrapo wrote: post #7

I can't understand why they ditched XMPP for corporative Google accounts. Our uni uses Google services but for their stupid chat I have to keep a Hangouts tab opened because most XMPP clients won't work with it.

Everybody I know moved on from XMPP years ago. Google and Facebook dropping their support was indeed big part of it. But all in all centralised protocols have proven to be easier, more stable and simply better. Want to roll out a new feature? No need to sit down with a committee for years or wait for all 3rd party clients to keep up: you just implement the feature yourself. Wait... what was the question?

> But all in all centralised protocols have proven to be easier, more stable and simply better.

Show me a centralised protocol that is better at interoperability between various services?

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#42

Post by vadfa »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #41
vadfa wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody I know moved on from XMPP years ago. Google and Facebook dropping their support was indeed big part of it. But all in all centralised protocols have proven to be easier, more stable and simply better. Want to roll out a new feature? No need to sit down with a committee for years or wait for all 3rd party clients to keep up: you just implement the feature yourself. Wait... what was the question?

> But all in all centralised protocols have proven to be easier, more stable and simply better. Show me a centralised protocol that is better at interoperability between various services?

Given that as of today xmpp practically doesn't interoperate with anything, well...

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#43

Post by enos_feedler »

JohnFen wrote: post #37
enos_feedler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Village Global podcast episode where Eric Schmidt is asked this question [1]. He basically says that leadership did not "get" messaging platforms. I think of this as similar to how RIM/blackberry did not "get" the iphone. Nor did Steve Ballmer. It's equivalent in screwup magnitude to Microsoft not getting mobile. This requires massive leadership oversight. Now, having worked at Google during these times (i…

> Schmidt also references youtube as a messaging/social platform in the podcast episode. I've heard that from other people at Google as well. But the fact that YouTube isn't a messaging/social app in any significant way is part of why I stick with it. I wonder if I'm not the only one.

It's true but not because they haven't tried. I remember they had some feature to share a video with your direct contacts/friends and open up a chat to talk about it.

I think this just goes to show it isn't as easy as they thought it was. I am sure Microsoft leadership thought it would be easy to turn a dominant consumer computing platform (windows) into a dominant mobile platform. I mean it is true that we are seeing a convergence to some degree with ios/ipad/macos. The thing is it doesn't happen as fast as needed for the competition to captialize on it. Facebook might eventually look like youtube. However, by the time it happens there will nothing left for youtube to gain. The market will be cooked.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#44

Post by enos_feedler »

enos_feedler wrote: post #43
JohnFen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schmidt also references youtube as a messaging/social platform in the podcast episode. I've heard that from other people at Google as well. But the fact that YouTube isn't a messaging/social app in any significant way is part of why I stick with it. I wonder if I'm not the only one.

It's true but not because they haven't tried. I remember they had some feature to share a video with your direct contacts/friends and open up a chat to talk about it. I think this just goes to show it isn't as easy as they thought it was. I am sure Microsoft leadership thought it would be easy to turn a dominant consumer computing platform (windows) into a dominant mobile platform. I mean it is true that we are seein…

i am conflating social network and messaging platform here which are too distinct things. Just trying to make a point about how easy it is to have irrational confidence in using the thing your successful in to gain success somewhere adjacent.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#45

Post by enos_feedler »

JohnFen wrote: post #37
enos_feedler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Village Global podcast episode where Eric Schmidt is asked this question [1]. He basically says that leadership did not "get" messaging platforms. I think of this as similar to how RIM/blackberry did not "get" the iphone. Nor did Steve Ballmer. It's equivalent in screwup magnitude to Microsoft not getting mobile. This requires massive leadership oversight. Now, having worked at Google during these times (i…

> Schmidt also references youtube as a messaging/social platform in the podcast episode. I've heard that from other people at Google as well. But the fact that YouTube isn't a messaging/social app in any significant way is part of why I stick with it. I wonder if I'm not the only one.

If youtube did start growing the messaging/social features you like, how would you remove yourself from it? thats where the videos are.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#46

Post by JohnFen »

mrweasel wrote: post #24
vaseem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it hasn't. Ever get annoyed whether your email is in primary, updates, promotions or social. Previously I had rules, almost all marketing went to labels or trash. Is it just me or have the rules become inconsistent?

I think I might be in the minority.I never use Gmail (GSuite, at work) via the browser, but I still use Gmail, it's just via IMAP or "native" Gmail integration. I was never blown away by the user interface, but many rely on the gmail interface to manage their emails effectively.

I don't use GMail for my personal use, but my work used GMail, and that's what I did with that. Google's actual interface is not one that I enjoy.

Later, we switched to O365 and so use Microsoft for email. I still use IMAP for that, because the Outlook interface is not one that I enjoy.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#47

Post by miked85 »

mdasen wrote: post #18

I'd guess that it's a combination of things, but I think what sticks out to me is that a) they probably hit a plateau and felt like they needed to do something to break out of that (and didn't really have a good idea so they started "mixing things up"); and b) messaging seems like a product that everyone wants to solve, but doesn't necessarily offer amazing monetary returns. I loved GChat. It was simple. I could use…

I miss the days of AIM, Yahoo, MSN, GChat. I have lost contact with a lot of people after all of those died off.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#48

Post by JohnFen »

enos_feedler wrote: post #45
JohnFen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schmidt also references youtube as a messaging/social platform in the podcast episode. I've heard that from other people at Google as well. But the fact that YouTube isn't a messaging/social app in any significant way is part of why I stick with it. I wonder if I'm not the only one.

If youtube did start growing the messaging/social features you like, how would you remove yourself from it? thats where the videos are.

If they were intrusive, I'd just stop using it. The internet is full to the brim of videos from other platforms. YouTube isn't the only game in town. I use it mostly because it's convenient. If it became much less convenient (and, honestly, they've made a number of "enhancements" lately that have made it a bit less convenient), the cost/benefit ratio would no longer be favorable.

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#49

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

vadfa wrote: post #42
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But all in all centralised protocols have proven to be easier, more stable and simply better. Show me a centralised protocol that is better at interoperability between various services?

Given that as of today xmpp practically doesn't interoperate with anything, well...

What do you mean, 'xmpp practically doesn't interoperate with anything'?!

Dozens of thousands of xmpp servers interoperate and deliver messages to each other. Or do you expect it to interoperate with Telegram? What next would you expect, UDP ICMP interoperability?

Re: Ask HN: How did Google botch messaging/video/hangouts so badly?

#50

Post by dhosek »

mrweasel wrote: post #24
vaseem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it hasn't. Ever get annoyed whether your email is in primary, updates, promotions or social. Previously I had rules, almost all marketing went to labels or trash. Is it just me or have the rules become inconsistent?

I think I might be in the minority.I never use Gmail (GSuite, at work) via the browser, but I still use Gmail, it's just via IMAP or "native" Gmail integration. I was never blown away by the user interface, but many rely on the gmail interface to manage their emails effectively.

Me too. I have one account that I use for my fiction/poetry submissions that I'll log into via the web interface when I get a response because Apple Mail doesn't have a way to be able to apply multiple tags to a message and I tag each response with the journal, the submission and whether it's a rejection or acceptance (plus a star if there's specific feedback). Other than that, all my mail access is through Apple Mail either on my Mac or on my phone.
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