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The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

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Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#131

Post by burlesona »

ImaCake wrote: post #87
lettergram wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nature of the USA is not to have a federal response. A fairer way to review this is at the state level. That being said, Fauci lead the charge on the AIDS pandemic and this one ...

That's a good point. Australia has a similar federalist structure as the USA, although we have less than 10 states/territories of any consequence. The COVID response has a been fix of both state and commonwealth (federal). The commonwealth closed the borders, but because health is delegated to states/territories it was up to each state to manage the testing, contact tracing, and lockdown rules. The main issue in Aust…

IIRC Australia has also used internal border closures between States.

That is unconstitutional in the US and therefore never even considered.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#132

Post by tim333 »

tiahura wrote: post #100
walterbell wrote: post #38

In addition to not making new viruses, we should consider a moratorium on further digging up of old viruses, e.g. securing Arctic graves of Spanish Flu victims, or ancient viruses in the sea bed or icebergs, https://www.nature.com/articles/437794a (2005) > It is thought to have killed 50 million people, and yet scientists have brought it back to life. In this issue of Nature, scientists publish an analysis of the ful…

Why are we not nuking the handful of caves in China where these bats live?

There are millions of bats all over Asia. It would be a bit of a job.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#133

Post by dboreham »

goolulusaurs wrote: post #105

Why the hell would you put a virology lab in the middle of a huge city with millions of people? I am not a virologist, but to me it seems like if covid was a lab-leak then it could have been avoided very easily just by having the lab in the middle of nowhere, like in the desert or the artic. Instead of the whole world having to go into lock down, with millions dying, just put the lab in a remote location, and make it…

US has a lab in rural Montana.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#134

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

rossdavidh wrote: post #101
m0llusk wrote: post #57

The article notes that a lab leak or gain of function research or both are suspected because research with cultivated influenza strains was common at that time. In contrast, attempts by researchers at Wuhan to consistently cultivate coronavirus were unsuccessful. That is why they decided to work with chimeras instead of pursuing gain of function research. All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know…

Whatever one thinks the optimal response to a pandemic should be, the fact that several nations of western Europe (e.g. France) with much different policies, have per capita mortality the same or higher, suggests that the policies used were not a major determinant of the outcome. If you plot per capita mortality for France and Sweden, they are almost identical, swapping places five times so far. Currently Sweden is s…

Your France vs Sweden statistic disturbed me so I looked into it and Sweden seems to have by far the highest Covid deaths in the Nordic countries.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coron...

I’d like a per capita chart but I can’t find one. Norway has about half the population of Sweden and has 18x less Covid deaths though. Maybe France and Sweden are too different to compare directly?

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s...

Norway and Sweden seem a much better comparison and they had pretty much opposite responses to Covid.

“Norway closed educational institutions, and banned sports and cultural activities; Sweden kept most institutions and training facilities open.”

To me this implies Covid lockdowns etc may have caused a ~ten-fold reduction in per capita death rate.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#135

Post by mensetmanusman »

philjohn wrote: post #123
mensetmanusman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A competent strategy for an aerosol virus that also remains hosted in domestic pets requires many years of preplanning and N95 stockpiling.

Which is why pandemic preparadness plans are a thing - as are teams that run regular drills, and stockpile the necessary PPE. In both the US and the UK those plans were either ignored, or the teams disbanded.

Yes, the sad thing is that we could have redirected one tank worth of funding 10 years ago for an entire years supply of N95s for every American just waiting in local warehouses to be distributed.

Proper N95s age well.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#136

Post by aklsync »

indymike wrote: post #113
goolulusaurs wrote: post #105

Why the hell would you put a virology lab in the middle of a huge city with millions of people? I am not a virologist, but to me it seems like if covid was a lab-leak then it could have been avoided very easily just by having the lab in the middle of nowhere, like in the desert or the artic. Instead of the whole world having to go into lock down, with millions dying, just put the lab in a remote location, and make it…

> This seems obvious, why isn't it standard protocol? Would you take a job that had that requirement? Want a few days off? 2 week quarantine. Would investors be ok with this? Want to pay expensive PHD for vacation plus quarantine time (which could be days off x 10 working days every time). The problem is that the workers in the lab are just as human, have the same needs for relationships and contact, and some have en…

These questions, while valid, should not matter. People who had to work in Los Alamos would perhaps have preferred a location in Manhattan, too.

There is an oversupply of scientists who would do anything to work in their fields. One could also question if this sort of research has ever produced anything valuable (I'm not in the field, genuine question).

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#137

Post by DebtDeflation »

radu_floricica wrote: post #62
m0llusk wrote: post #57

The article notes that a lab leak or gain of function research or both are suspected because research with cultivated influenza strains was common at that time. In contrast, attempts by researchers at Wuhan to consistently cultivate coronavirus were unsuccessful. That is why they decided to work with chimeras instead of pursuing gain of function research. All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know…

How on earth is wanting to know why I was locked in my house for months with men with guns patrolling the streets.... "misplaced"? This is what 50 years of postmodernism and cultural relativism broughts us. "Why" doesn't matter, don't search beyond what the consensus is telling you.

>don't search beyond what the consensus is telling you

I'm seeing this in real time across the Internet as anyone who questions the FDA's (split) Friday decision against recommending boosters broadly is being shot down as "not following the science".

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#138

Post by wbl »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #126
varelse wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not focus instead on countries that did get this under control then? Some of them are even western.

You mean island countries? South Korea is essentially an Island, since it has been completely shut off from NK for decades.

There is an entire ocean between the US and China.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#139

Post by wbl »

radu_floricica wrote: post #62
m0llusk wrote: post #57

The article notes that a lab leak or gain of function research or both are suspected because research with cultivated influenza strains was common at that time. In contrast, attempts by researchers at Wuhan to consistently cultivate coronavirus were unsuccessful. That is why they decided to work with chimeras instead of pursuing gain of function research. All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know…

How on earth is wanting to know why I was locked in my house for months with men with guns patrolling the streets.... "misplaced"? This is what 50 years of postmodernism and cultural relativism broughts us. "Why" doesn't matter, don't search beyond what the consensus is telling you.

Because the CDC is incompetent and the FDA too. That's something that will affect us the next time no matter the origins.

Re: The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate (2015)

#140

Post by someguydave »

flybrand wrote: post #106
m0llusk wrote: post #57

The article notes that a lab leak or gain of function research or both are suspected because research with cultivated influenza strains was common at that time. In contrast, attempts by researchers at Wuhan to consistently cultivate coronavirus were unsuccessful. That is why they decided to work with chimeras instead of pursuing gain of function research. All of this focus on the point of origin is misplaced. We know…

At the outset, I agreed that research into the origin is misplaced. However as time went on, a scenario emerged that made the origin story important - it’s about the ethics and integrity of the system. If the people and institutions at the origin lack integrity, and they are the same things we depend on for the solutions brought forward - then the origin story matters a lot. If you have a vendor that is good, and the…

especially when the same people are: 1) responsible for funding very dangerous and questionable research 2) investigate their own failings 3) give advice on how every else ought to behave?!?
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