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An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

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Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#31

Post by indy »

dogsboywonder wrote: post #18

The amount of censorship, especially among the qualified scientific community in just about every facet of this disease is alarming. Even if the origins were accidental or lab-born or whatnot, the response has been so politicized worldwide that pure science has been largely thrown out the window. Every possibility should be analyzed & tested, even if it goes against the interests of a ruling party and all parties are…

As someone mentioned on Twitter: "When you mix Science with Politics you end up with Politics"

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#32

Post by phodge »

I've never worked in virus research, but my understanding is that any researcher would be keeping meticulous records of every virus they're studying, as well as detailed information about genetic differences with any variants they have produced. So if the Chinese govt simply seized access to all research projects at the lab at Wuhan they would have been able to compare all viruses within the lab with SARS-Cov-2 within a matter of weeks and have an extremely confident Yes or No as to whether it came from their lab.

I'd love to be refuted on the above by someone with actual viral research experience because the alternative conclusion is that the Chinese govt has known the true origin of SARS-Cov-2 since early 2020 and simply won't tell anyone.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#33

Post by asxd »

dkersten wrote: post #27
asxd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, why? What gain would come from putting little computers into people's blood? If it's for some sort of behavioral tracking, it seems like a lot of effort considering everyone is already carrying a computer in their pocket. I guess I also would like to know why Bill Gates has become such a target for conspiracy theorists lately? My impression has been that he's pretty sincerely involved in improving conditions in…

> If it's for some sort of behavioral tracking, it seems like a lot of effort considering everyone is already carrying a computer in their pocket. Not to mention.. how would you even get the data off the microchips? (Or onto it for that matter, what magical microscopic sensors can detect your behaviour from your blood?) The antenna would be incredibly tiny and if my limited knowledge of wireless tech is anything to g…

Somewhat related--this kind of reminds me of the somewhat common belief that your phone is listening to your conversations, due to oddly relevant ads coming up after discussing some product with a friend.

It seems like if that were true, companies must be employing some wildly amazing technology to solve energy and data issues.

I think I'm put off by quite a few conspiracy theories because they seem to assume the powers at be are amazingly competent, and I just have a hard time believing that's actually the case.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#34

Post by sneak »

phodge wrote: post #32

I've never worked in virus research, but my understanding is that any researcher would be keeping meticulous records of every virus they're studying, as well as detailed information about genetic differences with any variants they have produced. So if the Chinese govt simply seized access to all research projects at the lab at Wuhan they would have been able to compare all viruses within the lab with SARS-Cov-2 withi…

Now how would anyone else ever get access to that evidence, if the people who physically control it don't want it to be widely known?

If indeed it ever existed, such would almost certainly have been destroyed by now.

Ultimately the source/origin story only matters to narrative or those who would push political narratives of good/evil guilty/innocent. We have to live in the world that exists today regardless of whether it was chance or carelessness that caused it.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#35

Post by sneak »

dkersten wrote: post #24
dreen wrote: post #17

It's well known that local Chinese authorities silenced a doctor (Li Wenliang) who was giving early warnings about the virus. That to me is a more grave mistake than an accidental lab leak, because they lost a chance to nip it in the bud. Accidents happen and quick response is essential. An intentional lab leak makes no sense to me at all. Its like starting a fire in your house to spite your neighbour.

> An intentional lab leak makes no sense to me at all. Very few people are arguing that it was intentional. I agree that an intentional lab leak is highly, highly unlikely, but I think an accidental lab leak is at least just as likely as the wet market hypothesis and CCP certainly acted extremely suspicious.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

All major world governments do illegal and shady acts when faced with situations that may result in the need for extreme ass-covering. (cf. "righteous strike")

If it were an accidental lab leak: so what? How does that change things? If anything, it would accelerate a {trade,cold,cyber,shooting} war with China, which is universally a bad thing, even in pursuit of justice for something that was likely accidental (if indeed it came from a lab, which is presently undefined/unknown to the public).

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#36

Post by nobody9999 »

peakaboo wrote: post #4

It's so interesting to me that people can't even imagine that covid could be intentionally created and let out. Not a leak, not an accident. Is it because people don't understand that actual evil exists outside of movies? That there are extreamly powerful people in the world that will throw babies into fires because they believe in occult entities? This is not imaginary. We live in a world where very evil people exis…

>Is it because people don't understand that actual evil exists outside of movies? That there are extreamly powerful people in the world that will throw babies into fires because they believe in occult entities? This is not imaginary.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Everybody knows that babies are too valuable to be thrown into fires. They need to be murdered for their tasty, tasty adrenochrome[0]!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#38

Post by tjpnz »

peakaboo wrote: post #3

We live in interesting times, where "conspiracy theories" become true after about 6 months. The reality of the situation is that people who actually pay attention, not the ones who constantly watch the TV news narrative, have been able to not only understand the true origin of covid, but also predict the entire chain of events that has occurred as a consequence. When will the general public stop seeing conspiracy the…

The lab leak hypothesis has backing from credible scientists. Conspiracy nuts had nothing to do with it's rise to prominence. They just related it to their existing batch of paranoid delusions.

Re: An appeal for an objective, open, transparent debate re: the origin of Covid-19

#40

Post by [deleted] »

indy wrote: post #31
dogsboywonder wrote: post #18

The amount of censorship, especially among the qualified scientific community in just about every facet of this disease is alarming. Even if the origins were accidental or lab-born or whatnot, the response has been so politicized worldwide that pure science has been largely thrown out the window. Every possibility should be analyzed & tested, even if it goes against the interests of a ruling party and all parties are…

As someone mentioned on Twitter: "When you mix Science with Politics you end up with Politics"

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