Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#21

Post by Grim-444 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

Tagbert wrote: post #17

morsch wrote: post #3

It isn’t overly expensive. Most insurances will cover it, but if they don’t it’s about $100 to 200. It's around 25 EUR in Germany. https://archive.is/dyY3Q

This is in the US where we aren’t burdened with inefficient, government-controlled health care. /s

To provide additional context:

German Tax Rates for an individual:

$58,918 - $274,612: 42%

US Tax Rates for an individual:

$40,126 - $85,525: 22%

$163,301 - $207,350: 32%

So, if you make an average salary of roughly 40-90k, you pay a full twice as much in taxes, for an extra $9,228 to $20,700 each year.

That extra ~$10,000 to ~$20,000 dollars you pay in Germany in taxes, then (a portion of it) goes to pay for the health care.

The drug isn't just magically cheaper, they just pay for it via taxes instead.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#22

Post by vmception » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

bryant wrote: post #19

jjeaff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the right, as long as they aren't being subsidized by the government (and I suspect they are). But they might as well get their mitichlorian count while they are at it. It would mean about as much. Antibody levels will always fade after a vaccine within months and memory t-cells will remain.

> They have the right, as long as they aren't being subsidized by the government (and I suspect they are). This is a sound criticism, honestly. If there are social systems designed to provide a specific benefit across an entire population (testing once or twice post-vaccination to see if the vaccine stuck for select immunocompromised people or people in high risk environments) that end up being abused to give a diffe…

There was a time when I was getting a PCR* test every 7 days

I’m not in healthcare Or working on a movie set, etc

I just wanted to know and see a small group of friends every other week, while complying with local orders

I’m of the philosophy that money/liquidity isn’t guaranteed, and so for health matters might as well maximize the privilege while it is available

At the end of the day some tests were free, some were covered by insurance, some were paid for and not reimbursed, others were

I did something similar when I paid for the HPV vaccines out of pocket. Yeah it sucks that I could get hit by a car and all of this is moot, but I also like the additional privileged I can afford which can fortify me against some things

(*I dont care about the efficacy or cycle guidelines, thanks)

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#23

Post by eganist » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #22

bryant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have the right, as long as they aren't being subsidized by the government (and I suspect they are). This is a sound criticism, honestly. If there are social systems designed to provide a specific benefit across an entire population (testing once or twice post-vaccination to see if the vaccine stuck for select immunocompromised people or people in high risk environments) that end up being abused to give a diffe…

There was a time when I was getting a PCR* test every 7 days I’m not in healthcare Or working on a movie set, etc I just wanted to know and see a small group of friends every other week, while complying with local orders I’m of the philosophy that money/liquidity isn’t guaranteed, and so for health matters might as well maximize the privilege while it is available At the end of the day some tests were free, some were…

Yeah, but those are PCR tests, not antibody tests. There's a massive difference between the two, with the former trying to see if you're likely infected and the latter to measure an aspect of immunity.

Getting constant PCR testing is useful in that it'll help you reduce your own likelihood of transmitting the virus, which helps everyone.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#24

Post by vmception » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #23

vmception wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when I was getting a PCR* test every 7 days I’m not in healthcare Or working on a movie set, etc I just wanted to know and see a small group of friends every other week, while complying with local orders I’m of the philosophy that money/liquidity isn’t guaranteed, and so for health matters might as well maximize the privilege while it is available At the end of the day some tests were free, some were…

Yeah, but those are PCR tests, not antibody tests. There's a massive difference between the two, with the former trying to see if you're likely infected and the latter to measure an aspect of immunity. Getting constant PCR testing is useful in that it'll help you reduce your own likelihood of transmitting the virus, which helps everyone.

I’m aware they are different and didn't feel the need to qualify that as I think the point being made is very clear:

Pay for data and fortification if you want and can, no matter what anyone else can practically do

Compare yourself to yourself, not gen pop

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#25

Post by 09188 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bluishgreen wrote: post #4

Without "Rich People" in the title, this is a non article, with it - it is a cultural phenom. Welcome to the post Internet world.

FYI: this article is under the Style section, so not the same journalists that cover serious medical news.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#26

Post by fragmede » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

bryant wrote: post #19

jjeaff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the right, as long as they aren't being subsidized by the government (and I suspect they are). But they might as well get their mitichlorian count while they are at it. It would mean about as much. Antibody levels will always fade after a vaccine within months and memory t-cells will remain.

> They have the right, as long as they aren't being subsidized by the government (and I suspect they are). This is a sound criticism, honestly. If there are social systems designed to provide a specific benefit across an entire population (testing once or twice post-vaccination to see if the vaccine stuck for select immunocompromised people or people in high risk environments) that end up being abused to give a diffe…

It's still the early days of this situation though. We don't yet have the full picture of what immunity actually looks like across a significant sample size of the population 12/18/24 months after being fully vaccinated. Giving access to "the poors" to get themselves tested would help us develop a far more complete picture of what immunity looks like, especially as variants develop. If 0.01% of people never develop antibodies, or they wane after 6 months, we'd not know if we limit testing to a select few high net worth individuals vs a much larger sample size. For the MMR vaccine, it's something like 0.02% of people just never develop antibodies. We're all paying for short-sighted, selfish thinking right now. I'm glad I can afford and have the insurance to pay for antibody testing, but I'd be happier if my tax dollars went towards letting more people get that testing, in the name of public health policy.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#27

Post by fragmede » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

Grim-444 wrote: post #21

Tagbert wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in the US where we aren’t burdened with inefficient, government-controlled health care. /s

To provide additional context: German Tax Rates for an individual: $58,918 - $274,612: 42% US Tax Rates for an individual: $40,126 - $85,525: 22% $163,301 - $207,350: 32% So, if you make an average salary of roughly 40-90k, you pay a full twice as much in taxes, for an extra $9,228 to $20,700 each year. That extra ~$10,000 to ~$20,000 dollars you pay in Germany in taxes, then (a portion of it) goes to pay for the hea…

Which state are you in? Eg California you'd also pay 9.3% on $58,635 to $299,508, which gets you to 41% (approx), which gets you within spitting distance of Germany's 42%. Add on the fact that you'd pay a decently sized deductable for any real amount of healthcare, and it's starting to look, all-in, that we're getting a raw deal with our US healthcare "system". Yearly "deductible" for a swedish national under their system? ~$100.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#28

Post by trhway » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #16

trhway wrote: post #11

Wouldn't quick and easy, highly automated and thus very cheap blood finger pricking test done at the nearest Walgreens be a great thing? I feel like there is a business idea somewhere here.

I once got a Theranos test mostly for fun. Everyone is so focused on the fraud that they miss a more fundamental issue: finger pricks are a very painful way to draw blood. Your finger tip is extremely heavily innervated and very sensitive. Okay, maybe no big deal if you need one drop of blood, e.g. for a hemoglobin test. But Theranos wanted maybe ten drops of blood. Having one’s finger squeezed hard and long enough t…

we already microchip pets. One can speculate a bit on having a microchip for humans (and humans can potentially take a bigger one ) for internal monitoring. Especially given that smart watch already does a lot, one can see how having a sensor embedded under the skin can enhance the functionality.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#29

Post by fragmede » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #23

vmception wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when I was getting a PCR* test every 7 days I’m not in healthcare Or working on a movie set, etc I just wanted to know and see a small group of friends every other week, while complying with local orders I’m of the philosophy that money/liquidity isn’t guaranteed, and so for health matters might as well maximize the privilege while it is available At the end of the day some tests were free, some were…

Yeah, but those are PCR tests, not antibody tests. There's a massive difference between the two, with the former trying to see if you're likely infected and the latter to measure an aspect of immunity. Getting constant PCR testing is useful in that it'll help you reduce your own likelihood of transmitting the virus, which helps everyone.

Knowing that my antibodies have waned, and thus I'm more susceptible to infection is useful information for not getting everyone around me sick as well though. If I blindly go indoors to large events unmasked while believing I'm fully vaccinated, but it turns out my immunity has waned, you could (depending on how you're also behaving/interacting with the world) catch it from me before I'd pop positive PCR test.

Re: Some Rich People Are Counting Their Antibodies ‘Like Calories’

#30

Post by eganist » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #29

eganist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but those are PCR tests, not antibody tests. There's a massive difference between the two, with the former trying to see if you're likely infected and the latter to measure an aspect of immunity. Getting constant PCR testing is useful in that it'll help you reduce your own likelihood of transmitting the virus, which helps everyone.

Knowing that my antibodies have waned, and thus I'm more susceptible to infection is useful information for not getting everyone around me sick as well though. If I blindly go indoors to large events unmasked while believing I'm fully vaccinated, but it turns out my immunity has waned, you could (depending on how you're also behaving/interacting with the world) catch it from me before I'd pop positive PCR test.

> Knowing that my antibodies have waned, and thus I'm more susceptible to infection

So I guess this is the point I was making with my original comment when I mentioned a "nebulous benefit for a select few ."

Here's a good lay primer on immunity. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/waning-i...

Now, if it turns out you're a medical or osteopathic doctor, apologies in advance since I can't verify your qualifications; I'm still holding firm to my position because it's how I was instructed. And if you're not, then the link above will be helpful.