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Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

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Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#31

Post by selimthegrim »

rootsudo wrote: post #29
anovikov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, but here goes the question: colonialism provided a way to "export" safe, stable and reliable societies. And people rejected it. Was it a mistake?

That's another fun conversation of governance, rights and nation building. Which, ironically has plagued South America for quite a while - The reason Colombia and Venezuela have similar flags is they had the same wars and fight for freedom. They freed themselves from Spain and then became the institutions we know today. Corrupt, semi corrupt nation states, not on a national level but influence can be bought. Africa n…

Algeria and Guinea rejected it.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#32

Post by throwaway210222 »

space_fountain wrote: post #27
anovikov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, but here goes the question: colonialism provided a way to "export" safe, stable and reliable societies. And people rejected it. Was it a mistake?

I think most people would say colonialism did a poor job of explaining safety at least. Instead it was often powered by racism and subjugation. We do desperately need to find a way to help countries develop, but on the balance colonialism doesn’t seem to be it

> We do desperately need to find a way to help countries develop.

Hold our currencies.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#34

Post by maybelsyrup »

Norwegianguy wrote: post #11
Scoundreller wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which just lets them export more of the dino stuff they extract. Good move if you can do it. Can they give up exporting it too though? I doubt that will happen.

If we don't export petroleum products, someone else will. Much of the money we earn from petroleum is spent on making "the green shift" happen. Can other exporters say the same?

"Much of the money I earn selling fentanyl-laced cocaine is spent on building new rehabs. Can other drug dealers say the same?"

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#35

Post by Jensson »

nowayman1 wrote: post #30
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

No - Norway hasnt been treated like Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya because Norway is a white western country. Thus, neither the US/UK/France nor others will topple democratic regimes in Norway to get at the resources. Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya on the other hand are "expendable" nations where western powers clear the slate and build as they like. Usually in the name of Democracy, but really in…

Do you really argue that Muammar Gaddafi was democratically elected? He ruled as a dictator for 40 years until the Arab spring toppled his regime. He didn't come to power thanks to western influence, rather his coup was based on the anti west group.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#36

Post by mirekrusin »

nowayman1 wrote: post #30
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

No - Norway hasnt been treated like Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya because Norway is a white western country. Thus, neither the US/UK/France nor others will topple democratic regimes in Norway to get at the resources. Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya on the other hand are "expendable" nations where western powers clear the slate and build as they like. Usually in the name of Democracy, but really in…

What about Brazil?

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#37

Post by nromppl »

anovikov wrote: post #26
rootsudo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, but it's also agency too. People in those "other" countries never grew up in a safe, stable and reliable society. What they see is the old system of explore and exploit.

That's right, but here goes the question: colonialism provided a way to "export" safe, stable and reliable societies. And people rejected it. Was it a mistake?

Colonization provides a "safe, stable and reliable society" only as much as prison provides a "safe, stable and reliable living". Your average colony is a stunted caricature of a country, with borders and an economy that only make sense in the context of servitude to a remote power.

The only consistently prosperous form of former-colony is the type where the colonizers just removed and replaced the native population entirely - an extension of their own society into newly-emptied land. USA, Canada, Australia, etc.

There is no prosperity for the locals under colonialism. It's either servitude or erasure. And you're surprised people rejected it? And you're questioning if it was a mistake to reject it?

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#38

Post by mogadsheu »

credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

They’ve managed to maintain their wealth in social order largely because they’re neighbors of the British and friendly with them. And they’re part of NATO.

When Philips struck at Ekofisk some very smart people in the US/UK came to help them develop.

Norway was (by their own account) a country of scattered fishing villages.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#39

Post by no_butterscotch »

nowayman1 wrote: post #30
credit_guy wrote: post #24

Norway is wealthy because of its strong institutions. Nigeria and Venezuela have more oil, Azerbaijan and Libya too, but for them it's a curse not a blessing. Norway has the rule of law, low corruption, people have confidence in their government, and the government looks out for the people. With or without oil, these things are tremendous assets. If oil were to become worthless tomorrow, Norway would continue to do q…

No - Norway hasnt been treated like Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya because Norway is a white western country. Thus, neither the US/UK/France nor others will topple democratic regimes in Norway to get at the resources. Nigeria, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Libya on the other hand are "expendable" nations where western powers clear the slate and build as they like. Usually in the name of Democracy, but really in…

I'm not disputing that Western nations have meddled in these countries too much.

But it seems like you're completely absolving these countries and peoples of all responsibility for their country and themselves, that in and of itself seems like the Western elites' "these people can't help themselves" approach.

The reality is likely a mix somewhere between the two, variable for each country and circumstance.

Re: Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels?

#40

Post by no_butterscotch »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

Norway is an interesting case because their own energy grid is mostly powered by renewables. However, they export huge amounts of fossil fuels to other countries: > With their hydro-powered energy grid and electric cars, they are among the world’s most enthusiastic consumers of green power, but decades of exporting oil and gas means this nation of 5.3 million enjoys a generous welfare buffer, and sits on the world’s…

Others have commented that Norwegians aren't "getting high on their own supply", but it isn't admirable that they're exporting it to countries that use and abuse it while lecturing others on fossil fuels.

Not that Norway is alone in this hypocrisy. Other countries nearby such as Sweden for instance with its arms manufacturing industry (instead of oil) while being seen and promoting themselves as super liberal peace-mongers.

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