Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think you cherry-picked here. You are thinking about the Baltics and forgetting about places like Uzbekistan The parent did not cherry pick, they didn't go far enough. It was overwhelmingly positive regardless of Kazakhstan or Serbia. East Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria.
Estonia represses 7% of its population.
Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
611–620 of 673 posts
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#612Earlier quoted context omitted.
I come from a 3rd world dictatorship country. I don't really think that'd help. It'd further isolate those countries, making them more and more authoritarian and less and less educated. Google pulling out of any country for help democracy either.
Interested in your thoughts on what would help? From your point of view?
I think all authoritarian governments rely on a chunk of their population to stay in power. This population can be very small, but sufficient.
In order to maintain their popularity they rely on:
1. Lack of education
2. Strong propaganda
3. Poverty
4. Social welfare
5. Religion & ideology
6. Fear of enemy
Within their target demographics.
So, they will end up with chunks of population who are uneducated, poor, strongly reliant on government welfare that are actually thankful for the government for their social welfare and cultural/religious alignment.
The pro-democracy people are usually middle class citizens. How do you fight uneducated, religiously/culturally motivated people with tame middle class citizens? It's not doable. That's why Taliban takes control of Afghanistan.
The only thing that I've seen work is this:
1. You try to keep communications alive with population. Google leaving a country? There couldn't be anything worse.
2. You incentivize government/regimes to stay as open as possible.
3. You wait decades for paradigm shifts within populations.
As for #1, let me give you an example. ~25 years ago I was 7. I lived in Iran. There was no internet. TV & Radio are government controlled and the country was too poor for people to travel abroad.
The _only_ thing that kept us connected to the outside world was... soccer.
Iranian state TV would broadcast a few soccer games a week (not live). For a massive chunk of the population, the only way to see there are _other_ type of people, not name Ali, Hussain, Muhammed, etc, and instead named Alessandro, Paolo, David, whatever, was soccer. Something simple like this can really keep the mind open. Allows you to realize there are other ways.
Fast forward a few years, a "reform" government was in place. The regime was relatively incentivized to talk to the US. Thus, they allowed Internet. The reform government allowed music and film to flourish again. As a result of economic growth a lot of Iranians were traveling abroad (from Turkey and Dubai to all over Europe) and as a result the middle class got more and more "western".
Fast forward to Donald Trump leaving the JCPOA, putting a "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran.
The economy went to shit (it's really a humanitarian crisis now). The government, scared of riots, locked everything down. All European brands/companies have left the country and the government is pushing to close down internet altogether.
A decade ago Iranians were pushing for democracy (Green Movement). Now, their only concern is survival. There is no hope anymore. The population is getting poorer and poorer, less and less educated.
So my question after this story is, do you think Google leaving Russia will end up helping Russians get more educated, more wealthy, more connected to the free world?
Or would it push them to the direction of poverty, isolation and disconnect?
Iran 10 years ago (before maximum pressure campaign by the republicans) was on the path to be something like Turkey. Not totally free, but somewhat OK ish country. Now it's on the path to be another North Korea (if this direction continues for another 15-20 years)
Sorry this wasn't a well written, well thought piece. It was an anecdotal dump of thoughts, but hopefully I managed to make a point.
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#613Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usually, we would sanction countries that did this. Maybe time to sanction companies? Otherwise, why do anyone expect them to do anything other than what is the most profitable? Its even illegal not to.
> Usually, we would sanction countries that did this. Maybe time to sanction companies? Otherwise, why do anyone expect them to do anything other than what is the most profitable? Its even illegal not to. Sanction for what exactly? Sanctions against nations don't work. USA has been sanctioning Cuba, Iran for half a century, no regime change whatsoever, it only hurt the population in these countries. USA are sanctioni…
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#614Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is means, employees of Apple in Russia go to jail, accounts frozen, offices raided, documents and equipment seized, sales of iPhone banned, access to Apple servers blocked. What do you achieve with this?
The app is up. Have you ever heard about a butterfly effect? And this is not even a butterfly's wing flap.
Govt says take that down, the company takes it down, public outrage ensues, govt takes a step back, the company brings it back.
The good thing about governments is that you actually pick the management. Even in not so democratic places it is common and acceptable to take down poor managers through any means.
With companies, you only can hope that the CEO is capable and ethical. That’s why it’s not OK for them to go extralegal. They are supposed to function within the law and their obligations are to the shareholders.
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#615This proves one thing - we need non-centralized application distribution mechaism which could not be censored. Neither Apple or Google or any 3rd party should control what I install on my phone. I know that unlike iOS, Android users can install programs directly or via alternative app stores on their phones. Direct installation is burdensome and does not provide updates. Alternative app stores (e.g. Amazon) are also…
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
I said nothing about physical control. WhatsApp and other apps automatically download images that are sent to them. Scammers and those who commit fraud or phishing attempts don't have physical access to their victims electronic, yet they're able to get victims to download and run malicious code all of the time. There's also the fact that iOS exploits are so plentiful that they're cheaper than Android exploits.
Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Remember, only the flagged images will be reviewed, and only they could ever be sent to law enforcement, so it wouldn't even reveal their private photos or anything like that.
Because that requires possessing illegal images, while legal pornography that also happens to cause a hash collision with NeuralHash doesn't.
Again, no one at Apple is reviewing the source image. They're reviewing obfuscated derivative images, and then informing law enforcement if they suspect they're illegal images.
What law enforcement then does is get warrants for all of the accused's electronic devices and raids their home and workplace in order to collect evidence.
It's another version of SWATing. Sure, eventually the authorities might find out that the accused isn't actually a mass shooter or holding hostages, but by then the damage is already done.
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#617Earlier quoted context omitted.
Estonia represses 7% of its population.
It represses it so much, that the repressed ethnic Russians gang up, and go lighting up the Russian embassy from time to time, as a gratitude for Mr. Putin's attempts at "liberating" them.
Your comment is also beside the point. Russia is likely no better than Estonia. It does not mean Estonia is not worse than other EU countries, including former members of USSR.
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#618Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could the same thing be accomplished with rank choice voting?
Are you asking if Russia would allow alternative voting system in order to make it easier voting for opposition candidate?
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
Never seen that Brin stated he's patriot of Russia. Do you have any proofs? Besides, arm who? Arm us, Russians to do what? Destroy our own country like e.g. Ukraine did? So that western corporations destroy all the industry (suppress competition and create bigger market for western goods), destroy even agriculture (US and EU farmers would be happy to supply their food to a new market, keeping agriculture production i…
> It all already happened in ... Georgia Hm, let's see Russia: https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp Georgia: https://tradingeconomics.com/georgia/gdp
Well, it's kind of obvious, that Georgia is poverty-stricken country. It's possible to visit Georgia for anyone. Millions of tourists from Russia visits Georgia every year. We can see that there's extreme poverty in Georgia everywhere. Unemployment, energy shortage, lack of future perspectives. These problems will get only worse due to COVID-19 and global energy crisis (Georgia doesn't possess significant fossil fuels deposits, it has to import everything from abroad).
Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin
#620Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not convinced that we can tell black from white. I also think that there ought to be a certain level of relativism when it comes to judging political systems. Is it democratic that an unelected group of 9 people can unilaterally essentially decide the law of the land in the US?
>Is it democratic that an unelected group of 9 people can unilaterally essentially decide the law of the land in the US? Are republican (little r) systems inherently authoritarian in your view? Do you actually fear that SCOTUS is going to start imposing some sort of autocratic control over American government? I'm not. You probably aren't either. There are institutional explanations for this.