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France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

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Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#71

Post by hulahoof »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #48
ldargin wrote: post #39

There's no question that nuclear subs are more appropriate for Australia, especially against a sophisticated opponent like China. Hopefully USA and Australia can compensate France in some way to maintain their prestige.

China is Australia's largest trade partner, and China owns tons of Australian real estate (residential and industrial), and one out of 20 Australians considers themselves of Chinese ancestry. It doesn't seem to make much sense to conceive of Australia and China as submarine warfare opponents.

We are very protective of our territorial waters, not all submarine usage is warfare.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#72

Post by tkojames »

fruffy wrote: post #60
tkojames wrote: post #16

It is super laughable because the nuclear powered version that they are building for themselves was a fixed bid contract for something like 10 billion for 8 subs.. and the Australian contract keeps going up and up something like 35 billion for ten subs. The diesel sub for Australia is based on the nuclear sub that they signed the fixed bid contract for. Anybody with half brain can tell they are making up the lost of…

How trustworthy is The War Zone? It seems to be largely focussed on US defence tech industry, so I expect fairly biased reporting on this topic. Is there a better source?

It is 100% biased to USA sources. But they have interesting information on how the US defence tech industry works and goes more in depth than most places. It is a very fair point. I like how they actually talk about the technology and all that. Thanks for reminding me to keep in mind the source!

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#73

Post by varelse »

Kiro wrote: post #49
sergiomattei wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You know what else is as old as the hills? Those guidelines. https://web.archive.org/web/20140702092610/https://news.ycom... It might have been an illusion before but I personally think HN feels more like Reddit nowadays compared to then.

Society is becoming Reddit and it seems HN is following suit. The next logical step is for society to become 4chan, and we are off to a smashing start here, no?

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#74

Post by jonnybgood »

rmk wrote: post #11

It looks like the vaunted experience of Biden and his team has not translated into any sort of deft policymaking, particularly in foreign policy. The messy pullout out of Afghanistan, followed by this scuttling of the deal in progress between Australia and France have reinforced the notion that Uncle Sam can not be relied upon, even by his closest allies. Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client sta…

> Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client states of China.

By offering to provide less costly subs in support of a war with China? Your comment is nonsensical given the context of the deal.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#76

Post by neltnerb »

dirtyid wrote: post #66
Robotbeat wrote: post #56

I got how bad this seems from the French perspective, but pulling Ambassadors sounds like something you do if a country assassinated your diplomat or something, not just due to losing a military contract.

Last time France pulled ambassador from Australia was when Australia denied France from a weapons bid due to France testing nukes in the Pacific.

This is amazing, is it always about money? Surely there are other examples.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#78

Post by SiempreViernes »

ldargin wrote: post #39

There's no question that nuclear subs are more appropriate for Australia, especially against a sophisticated opponent like China. Hopefully USA and Australia can compensate France in some way to maintain their prestige.

Sure, but there was no need to publicly humiliate France by keeping the deal secret until the last minute.

The only real reason Australia didn't first cancel the French deal some months in advance of announcing their AUKUS deal is that they simply didn't care what their supposed ally would think about it, and set the timeline by some domestic needs.

But honestly I don't think the Biden admin will do much to assuage French concerns about not being respected, this administration doesn't really have any genuine interest in diplomacy, mostly just leaving things in place expecting them to tick over peacefully.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#80

Post by blazespin »

The french have a reason to be upset. Biden announced this without given them a chance to adjust to changing circumstances.

He did it in the manner he did, because he didn't want it leaked out over time and undermining his announcement, which will surely help his approval rating as being tough on China.

This makes the french look stupid and out of the loop. It certainly doesn't make them look like a respected ally.

The deal itself, they can't complain. Australia is below china and if giving them nuclear subs is the right to do for national security, it's the right thing to do.

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