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France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

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Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#31

Post by tmilard »

rmk wrote: post #11

It looks like the vaunted experience of Biden and his team has not translated into any sort of deft policymaking, particularly in foreign policy. The messy pullout out of Afghanistan, followed by this scuttling of the deal in progress between Australia and France have reinforced the notion that Uncle Sam can not be relied upon, even by his closest allies. Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client sta…

Because I am french I will not say anything too dark.

But yes, this SUB contract was big. Giant.And Naval Group is partially a state company.

The Worth for french community is this : 1) French just hatted Trump. Deeply. His sense of hatting his allies ( Germany...) and loving his foes ( North Corea, ect).

2) As opposed, French loved Biden. More rounded, multi cultural, more social like in Europe. I would say french people felt Biden was a friend.

So With this SUB commercial stab in the back, the feeling of a friend that betrays us french is palpable.

It feels as if Biden just behaved like Trump.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#33

Post by skissane »

trynumber9 wrote: post #3

It seems like a bit of an overreaction. Is shipbuilding that important to France?

It isn’t just that Australia cancelled the deal and made a new one with someone else. It is they kept their plans secret from France instead of letting them know about it and giving them a chance to make a counter-offer or save some face.

France has nuclear submarines too, so maybe France could still have played some role? Maybe AUKUS could have been AFUKUS? They didn’t allow France into the negotiation room, and they told France “everything is fine, we are sticking with your submarines” even while secretly negotiating with the US and UK.

I think being excluded and lied to upsets Macron far more than the submarines themselves do.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#34

Post by Zababa »

dougmwne wrote: post #18
xyk2 wrote: post #7

Is it just me or are there more off-topic political posts on HN lately?

It seems that the user base here has been deteriorating and the focus has been drifting away from the SV startup scene. I've also been noticing a growing political atmosphere that is in opposition to SV norms. A sign of the times probably, but I also suspect that HN's usefulness to Ycombinator is fading.

> I've also been noticing a growing political atmosphere that is in opposition to SV norms

Genuinly curious, what are "SV norms"? I think most of the people here don't come from SV, and I think this has been the case for a large part of HN existance, but I have nothing to prove it.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#35

Post by Grimm1 »

rmk wrote: post #11

It looks like the vaunted experience of Biden and his team has not translated into any sort of deft policymaking, particularly in foreign policy. The messy pullout out of Afghanistan, followed by this scuttling of the deal in progress between Australia and France have reinforced the notion that Uncle Sam can not be relied upon, even by his closest allies. Pretty surefire way of helping fence-sitters become client sta…

If they think the US is bad seems like an even worse idea to go buddy up with China imo. You know, the country on a more egregious economic imperialism kick for the last 15-25 years.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#36

Post by AndrewBissell »

chrisseaton wrote: post #23
dougmwne wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that the user base here has been deteriorating and the focus has been drifting away from the SV startup scene. I've also been noticing a growing political atmosphere that is in opposition to SV norms. A sign of the times probably, but I also suspect that HN's usefulness to Ycombinator is fading.

Massive technical military contracts seems extremely SV to me? Isn't that where it all started?

Presumably "SV norms" here refers to the expectation that one does not ever explicitly acknowledge this element in Silicon Valley's history, lest it undermine the "plucky dudes in a garage" mystique.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#37

Post by olalonde »

xyk2 wrote: post #7

Is it just me or are there more off-topic political posts on HN lately?

This trend started years ago. My opinion is that politics should be off topic on HN but the "everything is political" crowd doesn't seem to agree.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#38

Post by tkojames »

mahkeiro wrote: post #25
tkojames wrote: post #16

It is super laughable because the nuclear powered version that they are building for themselves was a fixed bid contract for something like 10 billion for 8 subs.. and the Australian contract keeps going up and up something like 35 billion for ten subs. The diesel sub for Australia is based on the nuclear sub that they signed the fixed bid contract for. Anybody with half brain can tell they are making up the lost of…

French contract took 4 years to be negotiated, the US one less than 6 months, in total secret with no public check… expect big surprises at the end, US weapons program are not known to never overrun their costs

For sure all that is right as well. But if I was in the Australian shoes this is just to good of deal from US and UK to turn down.

Re: France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia over a Submarine Deal

#40

Post by Dobbs »

dougmwne wrote: post #18
xyk2 wrote: post #7

Is it just me or are there more off-topic political posts on HN lately?

It seems that the user base here has been deteriorating and the focus has been drifting away from the SV startup scene. I've also been noticing a growing political atmosphere that is in opposition to SV norms. A sign of the times probably, but I also suspect that HN's usefulness to Ycombinator is fading.

Totally agree, if you want proof of the paradox of tolerance look around HN. In the sake of being tolerant to misogynistic, homophobic, racist, and transphobic posts and comments it has chased away many people leaving more and more the ugliness behind.

Most women, and trans people I know despise and avoid the site at this point. All you have to do is look at the comments any time something even tangentially related to women’s experiences in tech or when tech impacts women to see it.

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