Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is, when pretty much anyone brings up Bitcoin's issues , they've got an axe to grind. So I find it totally valid to bring up any and all bigger, worse, and longer historied comparisons to highlight that complaining about Bitcoin is quite petty; a mosquito bite for a cancer patient. Bitcoin is still new and poorly understood by a significant percentage of the population and therefore hasn't become part of…
> The problem is, when pretty much anyone brings up Bitcoin's issues , they've got an axe to grind Or it could be that rational people look at incredibly slow and energy expensive security with no fundamentals and no applications after a decade and are skeptical. I mean, why would someone have an axe to grind? Bitcoin stole their girl?
Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
161–170 of 177 posts
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be a bit more fair in the comparison (virtual vs physical), probally could account for shipping from manufacturer, to distributor, and then finally to the end user? It seems like that'd atleast tip the scales a little bit.
I think the article is talking about waste in the form of ASICs used for mining that need to be constantly replaced with upgraded versions to remain profitable, so it's already physical vs. physical.
I misinterpreted this statement: " On average Bitcoin generates 272 g of e-waste per transaction processed on the blockchain."
To mean the online cost of the hashing/mining, etc, not just physical e-waste.
Regardless this may be moot now, but my feelings was that comparing a consumer product (airpods) to a "bulk consumer" product like ASICs is doing an apple to oranges comparison. Airpods are manufactured in Vietnam and distributed through supply chains throughout the world -- whilst ASICs are manufactured in China and distrubted more locally (in Eurasia)?
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is, when pretty much anyone brings up Bitcoin's issues , they've got an axe to grind. So I find it totally valid to bring up any and all bigger, worse, and longer historied comparisons to highlight that complaining about Bitcoin is quite petty; a mosquito bite for a cancer patient. Bitcoin is still new and poorly understood by a significant percentage of the population and therefore hasn't become part of…
I’m open to having my mind changed about blockchain/bitcoin’s utility, I could also see a new cryptocurrency changing my mind about all of this, I really _want_ to like this stuff! But whenever I ask people about the environmental impact of crypto (or really any sub-surface level question about blockchain, smart contracts or NFTs) they either dodge the question, ignore the question, give a shallow non-answer, or call…
On the topic of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency utility, I'll point you towards another thread where I badly answered a similar question (and re-reading what I wrote I don't answer it at all), the core of the answer is that it's not simple to explain our to understand if you haven't "played" with it yourself to start the mental ball rolling as to its application and usefulness.
Discussion on the El Salvador legal tender go live: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28468982
My specific, but vague, commentary is the 18th comment on the above link.
Bitcoin was created to be an alternative to the corrupt money system that brought about the Global Financial Crisis. That isn't a thing that can be easily understood in its everyday utility to the average citizen, there has to be an understanding of the overall corruption (and potential for corruption) of the current system and there almost has to be agreement about that before Bitcoin can be considered to be something useful at all - ie. If person X doesn't have a problem with the current financial system then Bitcoin is a big, complex, electricity hungry beast alternative to a system that's running just fine, and therefore totally unnecessary.
In the years since Bitcoins inception things like Ethereum have come along to add "smart contract" utility that has allowed for things like Decentralised Finance and NFTs (the current usage of NFTs, I think, is detrimental to its potential for real-world problem solving, such as "proof of ownership" and I can't think of anything other use case right now). Decentralised Finance is so new, however, that we won't know what works well and what works poorly as replacements for existing financial services for a few years - bit I think it's important to go through this process of discovery.
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Only .4% of bitcoin transactions are used for illegal activities. And you know this... how? Did you know that 96% of statistics are made up on the spot?
https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2021/01/20/chainalysis-crypto-ill... Here's a source if you're curious
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would that be hard? It's used for tons of illegal activity (ransomware as an example).
Only .4% of bitcoin transactions are used for illegal activities. It'd be hard because you'd have to find every single node and disconnect it from the internet, and something like 90% of Bitcoin nodes run over TOR
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2021/01/20/chainalysis-crypto-ill... Here's a source if you're curious
Ah yes, cryptonomist.ch. Such a reliable, and unbiased source!
Also, can you provide an article showing that Bitcoin is used for "tons" (whatever percentage tons means) of illegal activity?
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#167HackedNews has a growing Bitcoin FUD problem. Seriously biased news source, none of the benefits of Bitcoin ever get reported on here.
What are the benefits?
All of these "uses energy per transaction" people are being underserved by their news sources on the development of the lightning network, which is like going from a LAN with global broadcast to NATed and routed TCP/IP (Bitcoin is a global broadcast layer and lightning is a transaction bundling / routing layer/network). I mean an entire country has adopted it and we still have folks on hacker news missing the disruption for the trees!
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#168HackedNews has a growing Bitcoin FUD problem. Seriously biased news source, none of the benefits of Bitcoin ever get reported on here.
> none of the benefits of Bitcoin ever get reported on here. They being...?
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#169This reminds me of that tweet from BP about their environment calculator, can't find the source right now. But the idea is they "care" about environment while they did the biggest oil spillage in history, otherwise known as the old proverbial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_bla... Do I really need to point who is the biggest e-waste generator in the world? Solve that problem first.
The thing is, we complain about the oil companies and at the same time we take the car to go to work, shopping, etc. It's also the consumers who are using the oil, not only the oil companies, who are to blame at the end. If no one buys, no one will produce. Sure, if it's cheap and readily available, people will use it no matter how bad it is. That's why it's so important that the governments increase the taxes on oil…
In many places in Europe you can get to work or holiday destinations by public transport.
In Switzerland (a rich and relatively densely populated country, albeit full of mountains) there are trains and cable cars to almost everywhere, and if not a train there is most likely a bus (managed by the post office). I managed to live there quite a few years without owning a car.
In Singapore they put a hard limit on the number of cars on the road (and no exception for electric cars, to Tesla disappointment), and the available slots are sold at auctions. There is a dense public transport system, supplemented by a relatively high amount of taxi.
Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem
#170Bitcoin is a "machine that greens". It will drive sustainable energy development in an emergent free market fashion and take us to a type 1 civilization. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-7dMVcVWgc Fix the money, fix the world.
As if Coronavirus were the "disease that eases" that will drive sustainable horse dewormer development in an emergent free miracle cure fashion and take us to an immortal civilization.
Cull the weak, accelerate evolution!