Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co • Hacker News Board

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#31

Post by NetOpWibby » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

dondawest wrote: post #29

cantrecall18169 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused. Monotype is PE-owned. Buying companies on the cheap and selling is classic PE logic. Monotype annual revenues were less than 1/10th the acquisition cost. Hoefler&Co had 5 employees and gross revenue was just over 625. Even if they sold for 10 times revenue, that's only $6M for 32 years of work. Purportedly: 1. Hoefler started the company in 1989. 2. After 10 years, in 1999, Frere-Jones joined—as an employee…

You’re missing key information on (2.) Frere-Jones DID put up capital… intellectual capital. He transferred the rights to famous typefaces he had designed, including Whitney, to the company with the understanding that he would be full partner. Hoefler shafted F-J so hard it’s unbelievable. The foundry’s reputation was built on Gotham which F-J designed. There’s no other way to see it.

This is key information I missed all those years ago, thanks.

I just remember feeling bad for FJ because something felt off about the whole thing.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#32

Post by jrochkind1 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

bww wrote: post #5

Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...

Frere-Jones has his own company https://frerejones.com/

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#33

Post by fatbird » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #10

cantrecall18169 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused. Monotype is PE-owned. Buying companies on the cheap and selling is classic PE logic. Monotype annual revenues were less than 1/10th the acquisition cost. Hoefler&Co had 5 employees and gross revenue was just over 625. Even if they sold for 10 times revenue, that's only $6M for 32 years of work. Purportedly: 1. Hoefler started the company in 1989. 2. After 10 years, in 1999, Frere-Jones joined—as an employee…

Hoefler’s gross revenue was $625 thousand ? Sounds impossible. What’s your source?

Hey, if the The Lord of the Rings movies can lose money, as New Line asserted to Peter Jackson when they denied him royalties, then a New York type foundry can surely operate for a couple decades on just a little more than a half million.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#34

Post by ineedasername » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

tempodox wrote: post #28

vmception wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its honestly a wonder that we - as humans - even recognize so many variations of our own letters and symbols such that we don't really notice the nuance of typography until particulars are pointed out to us

In my view, the best craft/design facilitates easy access to content or functionality without us even noticing its presence. It “just works”, unobtrusively. Typography had centuries to figure this out.

without us even noticing its presence

Agreed, I really only ever notice a font when it makes something hard to read.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#35

Post by gwern » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

bww wrote: post #5

Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...

The (public) court documents, if anyone wants to read through them: https://www.gwern.net/docs/design/2014-650139-tobiasfrerejon...

There's some pretty spicy and entertaining comments in the various briefs and discussions. My own overall impression is that it looks extremely bad for Hoefler, and he probably settled because his best defense, after all of the emails and documents produced, was "I totally did defraud Frere-Jones, but the statute of limitations protects me", which is... a bad look and a bad reason to win.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#36

Post by john-doe » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

gwern wrote: post #35

bww wrote: post #5

Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...

The (public) court documents, if anyone wants to read through them: https://www.gwern.net/docs/design/2014-650139-tobiasfrerejon... There's some pretty spicy and entertaining comments in the various briefs and discussions. My own overall impression is that it looks extremely bad for Hoefler, and he probably settled because his best defense, after all of the emails and documents produced, was "I totally did defraud Fr…

Also of interest (and quite a bad look too when you know about the usual camaraderie in the type design community) "The Hoefler Type Foundry vs. Darden, Joshua" https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...