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The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

theguardian.com

301–310 of 327 posts

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#301
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my circles, this is often the first time legislation (often not even that - often executive action, sometimes by unelected folks!) has had such an immediate, clear impact on people’s lives. Many of my friends and family have had their closest interaction with the government be taxes & vehicle registration at the DMV - inconveniences, but not much more. What you list are indeed spectacular failures, but they happen…

That's really interesting, I feel like I've experienced the opposite, most people I know have had some kind of interaction with the "hand of government" in some way, if not themselves then second hand. At least in the US with our incarceration rates, statistically it's still more likely that any given person knows someone who is in prison than knowing someone who has died from COVID-19. And COVID-19 has killed a lot…

>the will of the people

There is no unified 'will of the people.' I would agree that, in many cases, governments were criminalizing behavior which communities had already curtailed, so to that extent they were following wills of many people. In this case, why not let those same people who chose the actions take the blame or appreciation for their actions, rather than saying it was government?

I've moved about a decent amount in Covid times (after community spread was a fact of life in all those places). While moving throughout places within particular Covid-rule jurisdictions and looking across spans of time, the people I encounter are far stronger predictors of e.g. mask-wearing behavior than recent executive orders. Communities that want to wear masks continued to do so when civil authorities said they weren't necessary and cases were low, and communities that wanted to never wear masks stuck to their plans even when civil authorities ordered masks (with barely enough begrudging, targeted compliance to continue about their days) and cases were spiking.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually looked into it. They are smart on this and won’t sell to you.

How do they determine who to sell to?

They have a sales person to talk to, and a whole process on who you are and how you will use it.

https://twitter.com/sroussey/status/1220790758749270016?s=21

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#303

I’m so clueless about law in general if one of these geo fence thingies occur how do you even find a lawyer who understands and knows how to stop it ? I mean you do google for a cyber lawyer or something ?

You don't know about it until the cops show up at your door. Technically, a judge should have put the kebash on it as a fishing expedition. However, it's rendered "reasonable" by Third Party Doctrine.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. There are so many government laws and regulations that affect our day-to-day lives, it would be impossible to list them all. You have to get a driver's license to drive a car and wear a seat belt while you're driving it, you can't drive if you've been drinking alcohol, you can't buy alcohol unless you're 21 and you can't do it between the hours of 12am and 8am or on Sundays, you must vacc…

Public school has its influence. The asymmetrical power to focus large resources on ideological targets is a part of modern warfare that most high-school graduates are not going to grasp intuitively.

Oh sure, not relevant because government doesn't literally raise most of the children and there aren't really any government regulations in schools. /s

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think LEO only asks Google for location data, and not, for example, On-Star or auto OEMs?

Serious question: are there links about the data your car keeps on you (if any)? I'm not talking about if you use Google or other web location services. I've done some cursory asking around and found nothing. I would think the real problem is that every car manufacturer and every model year is different.

Try starting with these people.

https://cccis.com/

Follow the insurers.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core records of a cell phone company are at a cell level, which often are configured in a 120-degree sectors from a tower. If they really want, they can see the distance from the tower because that's a requirement for the communications protocol to work (LTE at least expects to account for lightspeed delay in allocating transmission slots) and gets measured during the communications, so the operator should be abl…

These newfangled beamforming systems can alter the direction of transmission to optimize signal quality for your phone. How can they do that if the system cannot locate a handset with great accuracy?

I have no idea about what information the (5G?) beamforming protocols use; perhaps they have figured out a way for some "angle discovery" as part of the protocol handshake or perhaps they just require the device send GPS data for that adjustment (and in the absence of that data would just skip beamforming, getting worse rates); but the distance information for the 4G/LTE timing system would be an inherent part of the protocol even if the device does not have GPS enabled and is based on literally measuring the round-trip timing.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the pandemic has changed people's political views in various directions. Personally I've become more anti-authoritarian, on the political compass I've moved a few points further down and slightly to the left (based on the UK Overton window) while also adopting stronger views on constitutionalism and the seperation of powers. I've also become a lot more pessimistic about the power of institutions…

>I'm very much now "I'm more than happy to pay taxes for better social services, but please keep the clumsy, oafish hands of the state out of my personal life before it does any more damage". This is very much a stance of "oafish hands for thee, but none for me." The same institutional mass of "oafish hands" that interferes in your personal life does the same to everyone engaging with social services. And while , in…

[deleted]

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#308
post #110
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't. Check traffic before you depart, pick a route, and leave some extra time in case you hit unexpected traffic. I know I've been going on about it lately, but for almost every "How can we possibly do this without an app tracking every bit of data it possibly can?" sort of task, people were doing that, or something functionally equivalent, before cell phones, or on cell phones that aren't actively user-hostile.

OSMand is open source and really good for navigation. It's on f-droid.

How do you use it in any way except by punching in lat/long? I cannot search for local addresses using it, which is a non-starter.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#309
Rant:

Ugh. People still don't grok the privacy situation wrt law enforcement. Here's me trying yet again trying to convey my understanding.

Our prior legal notions are moot when the "dragnet" is the entire planet, encompassing all people for all space and time.

Folk understanding of legal notions like probable cause, reasonable doubt, burden of proof, innocent until proven guilty, alibis, etc. no longer apply.

Identifying suspects and checking their alibis is obsolete. Law enforcement will use big data to rule out non-suspects. Then whoever is left must be the perp.

In the case of Zachary McCoy in this article, LE found a match. What I'm saying is in the near future, LE will rule out non-matches. So if LE can't establish an alibi for you, globally, you're a potential suspect.

Reverse strategy, same end result. But bigger scope.

In the mid-aughts, law enforcement was already using warehoused demographic data to solve cold cases. Imagine how much better they can do their job today. (And yet so many crimes go unsolved. All the downside of forfeiting our privacy, none of the benefits. Infuriating.)

ACLU's objection to Apple's CSAM effort hit HN's front page last week. Perfect example of preparing to fight the last war.

The ACLU, like most everyone else, still hasn't internalized what's happening/happened.

Forgive me, I still can't articulate my notions about privacy very well. Despite 20+ years of effort. Even when I try talk to other privacy advocates. When I try to simply example the technical capabilities of various players, and what that might mean, I'm dismissed as "paranoid, sweaty kook". (Actual quote from a local newspaper.)

When I write that I don't know what privacy even means any more, I'm dead serious. My only kindred spirit, matching my pessimism, has been Shoshana Zuboff (author of Surveillance Capitalism).

I remain open the possibility that I am in fact insane.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting, I feel like I've experienced the opposite, most people I know have had some kind of interaction with the "hand of government" in some way, if not themselves then second hand. At least in the US with our incarceration rates, statistically it's still more likely that any given person knows someone who is in prison than knowing someone who has died from COVID-19. And COVID-19 has killed a lot…

>it's not the government that was doing those things, it's the virus that was making it so they can’t buy something, they they have to wear a mask, they have to inject something in their body, they can’t go to a concert, etc. The difference between my government's response to the virus and the Swedish government's response was not determined by covid's preferences. Humans made these policies. >The government can only…

>Humans made these policies.

Yes, but my point is that those policies were only made in response to the virus. They were not made for no reason, and of course different groups of people will respond to the virus in different ways.

>The government is enforcing the will of the medical establishment.

I don't understand what the difference here is supposed to be, anyone who seeks medical care in that country could be considered part of the medical establishment, or at least considered as having some kind of investment in the will of that medical establishment.

>We didn't get polled on "6' vs 8' social distancing" or "should cloth masks be required or is a bandana acceptable?".

I'm also confused by this complaint, how often do questions like these show up on a ballot? Usually ballot measures are not this specific.

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